A 14-year-old boy allegedly fatally shot his older sister in Florida after a family argument over Christmas presents, officials said Tuesday.

The teen had been out shopping on Christmas Eve with Abrielle Baldwin, his 23-year-old sister, as well as his mother, 15-year-old brother and sister’s children, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said during a news conference.

The teenage brothers got into an argument about who was getting more Christmas presents.

“They had this family spat about who was getting what and what money was being spent on who, and they were having this big thing going on in this store,” Gualtieri said.

  • Cold_Brew_Enema@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Fuck the United States. Only place in the world this fucking shit happens regularly , because a bunch of small dick Republicans won’t give up their guns.

    • phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago

      Republicans were so lucky to find the gun issue

      They don’t give a shit about guns. But at long as they can keep their voters riled up about it, they won’t have the time to think about real issues like why they’re so poor, why they will go bankrupt if they get really sick, etc etc etc.

      Guns is like religion, it’s just another method of control where the target doesn’t even know they’re being controlled

      • icepick3455o65@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        There was a time when the NRA fought for a two-day waiting period on handgun sales and limits on concealed weapons permits. And a time when then–California Governor Ronald Reagan signed legislation forbidding the carrying of loaded firearms in public. Before gun control became a progressive cause, it was a right-wing staple, and it was aimed squarely at the rights of African-Americans nationwide.

        In Florida, white “citizens patrols” were permitted to search the homes of free African-Americans for guns “and other offensive or improper weapons, and may lawfully seize and take away such arms, weapons, and ammunition.” The message was clear: guns — like the ballot box, marriage, and the right to free assembly — were for white Americans only.

        That conflict — between the fears of racist whites and the needs of African-Americans to defend themselves — arose again in the late 1960s. The leaders of the Civil Rights Movement recognized that the need for self-defense still existed — in fact, Martin Luther King Jr. applied for (and was denied) a concealed carry permit. Recounting his memories of “Freedom Summer” and the Civil Rights Movement, Charles E. Cobb Jr., former field secretary of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, said, “I know from personal experience and the experiences of others, that guns kept people alive, kept communities safe, and all you have to do to understand this is simply think of black people as human beings and they’re gonna respond to terrorism the way anybody else would.”

        On May 2, 1967, a group of Black Panthers took to the steps of the California Legislature carrying revolvers, shotguns, and pistols and read a statement saying, “The time has come for black people to arm themselves against this terror before it is too late.” In a direct response to the incident, Governor Ronald Reagan signed the Mulford Act, banning the open carry of loaded weapons, barely two months later. Guns were “a ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will,” he said.

        As former NRA president Harlon Carter said in 1975, the use of guns by violent criminals or the mentally ill was simply the “price we pay for freedom.” In 1980, the NRA endorsed Ronald Reagan — 13 years after Reagan had signed the first open-carry ban in the country.

        White people may be more likely to carry a gun, but black people are more likely to be jailed for it.

      • AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Exactly. And they keep sowing this myth that the guns will be taken away at any point in time, but “you should keep them in case we become tyrannical!” And the definition of what is and isn’t tyranny is always subject to change, but usually if it’s tyranny against people the base doesn’t like, then it’s not tyranny.

        • prole@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          Yeah the same people are turning around and fully supporting a presidential candidate who is openly saying he will be a dictator when elected.

          Just an unbelievable level of stupid.

          • AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            They want someone who is going to be a dictator to the people they don’t like. Ask the SA how they were rewarded for their service to the Fuhrer. Oh, you can’t, because they died. Their reward was arrest and summary execution once their usefulness had ended.

      • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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        9 months ago

        Republicans were so lucky to find the gun issue

        The best part is that Dems could take it away from them at any time by just deciding not to fight them on that one with little lost in the process.

          • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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            9 months ago

            That means that gun control as an issue only exists because Dems allow it to exist.

            It’s the easiest and largest impact wedge issue for the GOP because gun control is basically a no go so they have to do very little to actually prevent it while it garners them a comparatively large number of wedge issue voters.

            Dems would lose relatively little by just dropping the issue almost entirely while denying a powerful wedge issue to the GOP.

    • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Well Technically… Of the 150 plus democracies on the planet only three have a constitutional right to firearms. The USA, Mexico and Guatemala… Of those Mexico actually has actually fairly heavy restrictions on what firearms are covered by the Constitution and which are restricted to police and military use.

      So realistically this sort of thing happens in the US and Guatemala… If it is any consolation the US is flagging way behind Guatemala in gun related deaths when you adjust for population?

    • Mafflez@reddthat.com
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      9 months ago

      Dude I lean center left…it’s not just Republicans that care about gun rights you dumbass. LOT of gun owners also are democrats. Stop trying to one side an issue. Thenissue isn’t guns it’s literally the owners and yea I’ll be damned if I give up my firearms cause you want me to. My guns stay locked up in my safe at all times. My kids know they aren’t toys and can seriously hurt someone. I keep the keys to that safe with me.

      Secondly taking away legal and lawful gun owners guns will NOT stop people who don’t follow the law from obtaining guns and doing bad shit with them. Grow the fuck up.

    • Reddit_Is_Trash@reddthat.com
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      9 months ago

      I bet it’s also Republicans fault that BOTH these kids have been arrested for car burglary too?

      If it wasn’t a gun, I guarantee it would have turned violent with any other weapon. Would you be this riled up if you read the same story but it was about a stabbing?

      The people in this story are the problem, not the weapon used

      • greater_potater@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        It is definitely the person who pulled the trigger’s fault, but I don’t understand why we would want minors whose brains haven’t fully developed to have point-and-kill weapons.

        You point out how awful these kids are, and then post in support of making it easier for them to kill. That’s strange to me.

        Although I guess it makes sense, because you also seem to imply that deaths aren’t more likely to occur if guns are involved. I just can’t agree with you there.

      • Powerpoint@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        Again, this shit only happens in the US. Guns are a big part of the problem. Don’t be fucking dense.

      • cgarret3@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        Oh?

        You’re sure (guarantee) that this would have been a stabbing? What makes you such an expert?

      • fosho@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        in multiple separate comments you have demonstrated a total inability to think beyond half a layer of depth. you are out of your element and have a great deal to learn. I truly hope that one day you do.

      • RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        So we’re just going to keep repeating this exact conversation every single time this happens. Because other countries don’t have systems, or people with fingers.

      • yuriy@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        “i think i’ll be a mouthpiece today, that’s all i’m good for”

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        “There is no way to prevent this from happening” says only country in which this regularly happens.

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      As the 2nd amendment says:

      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, well-regulated militias shall have the right to keep and bear arms. Also, in a twist completely unrelated to that other sentence, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. I’m talking rifles, muskets, flintlocks, hell, even futuristic weapons nobody’s invented yet. Not part of a militia? Doesn’t matter. Completely unregulated? That’s right. Also, by ‘people’ we mean everyone: kids, witches, the addled, it’s a free for all!

      Of course, most people only know the final trimmed-down edited version of that amendment. The original was much better, IMO.

      • Treczoks@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Not owned, but easy and unhindered access to one. That is the problem : Way too many guns for way too little brains.

        • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Agreed, and based on their rap sheets for car burglaries, a likely source of the guns.

          Which goes back to the two points I made in other posts:

          1. Any dumbass who keeps a gun unsecured in their car needs to be held accountable.

          2. When these kids were busted for burglaries, their homes needed to be searched for any and all stolen goods ESPECIALLY stolen guns.

      • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        I don’t recall the forefathers mentioning the age for gun ownership. Toddlers need to protect themselves against perverted republicans. #babyArms

        • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          It wasn’t the founders, it was the Gun Control Act of 1968 that blocked anyone under the age of 18 from owning a long gun and anyone under the age of 21 from owning a pistol.

        • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          That those kids got the guns illegally and would have done so regardless of what laws were in place? That point?

          • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            regardless of what laws were in place?

            Oh come on, regardless of where you stand on the issue, you can’t think of any change in law could contain that would prevent someone from getting a gun?

            • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              FTA:

              “Both teens have prior arrests for car burglaries.”

              Seems likely they stole the guns from cars, so maybe make it illegal to keep your gun in your car?

              Hard to say until the gun origins are traced back, but they weren’t legally purchased by or for the kids.

              • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                Seems likely they stole the guns from cars, so maybe make it illegal to keep your gun in your car?

                Hmm, so the source of the guns were the cars that were broken into. Hmm, yes. So what law can you imagine that would have even prevented the option for those gun owners to keep guns in their cars? C’mon, you’ve got this. Hint: How did the car owners get the guns?

                • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Nothing that could be blocked because of the 2nd amendment. You can’t prevent people from legally owning guns.

                  Now, if you want to get rid of the 2nd amendment, we have a process for that…

                  First you get 290 votes in the House, then you get 67 votes in the Senate, then you get ratification from 38 states, so all 25 Biden states +13 Trump states.

                  Good luck with that!

      • Mango@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Ignore the mob. They know nothing but insults. It’s a damn echo chamber in here.

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    9 months ago

    The bullet traveled through her left arm and into her chest, popping both of her lungs. She suffered internal bleeding and was unable to breathe

    That’s the nice way of saying she drowned in her own blood.

    “These young kids — 14, 15 years old — routinely carry firearms and this is what happens when you got young delinquents that carry guns,” Gualtieri said. “They get upset, they don’t know how to handle stuff, and they end up shooting each other.”

    Just FYI, this is not limited to children. There’s plenty of adults who have zero idea on how to handle stress without flashing a piece. I’ve seen about six different people use that as a method of indicating I’m getting over in your lane on my way into work pre-pandemic.

    • Hackerman_uwu@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      I’m pretty gullible and I believe a lot of stuff. So I’m asking this sincerely.

      Are you saying that in America people are tapping their widow with a Glock and giving you the stink eye to get into your lane? Like, instead of indicating and then waiting for a safe gap?

      • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        America is pretty big, and that isn’t something that happens where I live (Seattle)

        But there are parts of this country where a surprisingly large percentage of people are completely fucking insane and peacock with weapons in reckless ways. It also isn’t unusual for children to have guns, even if it isn’t legal.

        There’s a high school in rural Colorado that has given up on doing anything about guns in their high school because something like 30% of students are armed on any given day.

        I grew up in Tennessee, and students were allowed to store guns in their cars parked in the high school parking lot.

        I have met many people who open-carry and then openly emphasize it to others because they want to be intimidating. It’s a part of their identity, and they will let you know in inappropriate ways.

        This country is weird. I’m happy to live in a less violent part of it.

          • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            Found the Fox News watcher.

            Protip: The CHOP/CHAZ was a 3-week protest that closed a single neighborhood intersection, and ended over 3 years ago. The only people who think that it is an example of how dangerous Seattle is are people who watch right-wing news and have never set foot in Seattle…

            Fox News literally reported on it as if it were another country. They referred to it as if it as the “US/CHAZ border”, and overreported about it like it was the story of the century. Spoiler: they just hate progressive cities like Seattle, and were willing to say anything that would arouse their boomer viewership.

            It was basically an unauthorized block party created to stimulate an extended 2020 BLM protest.

            Yes, there was some violence, but at such a small scale it had zero effect on the city’s already low violent crime rate.

            But keep going about how racial justice protests make you feel unsafe…

            • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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              Lol people died but naaaa it’s cool it was just a small problem.

              https://www.axios.com/local/seattle/2023/11/08/washington-crime-rate-up-statistics-chart

              It might have been a low crime city 30 years ago but it’s not anymore.

              Also hilariously funny how you instantly think I’m a right wing repub. Keep thinking that while you argue with someone who is pro-choice, wants single payer, wants the war on drugs to end and qualified immunity repealed and also marched with the protestors during the BLM movement…but sure…keep putting your head in the sand.

              • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                If you find it frustrating that people think you’re a right winger, consider not talking like one.

                • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Yes because right wingers want all the stuff I’ve just stated…have you wondered why the Republican party still exists? It’s not because the Dems are fantastic… it’s because they won’t leave the damn guns alone. You tear that one last thing from the repubs and it’s a dem win for decades.

          • bricklove@midwest.social
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            9 months ago

            The George Floyd protests were outliers and the bigger picture shows that Tennessee is one of the most violent states in the country: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_violent_crime_rate.

            Even if you look at homicides per county, violence in TN is pretty widespread: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_intentional_homicide_rate

            Granted, Washington state’s homicides look fairly evenly distributed there but the worst areas are outside of Seattle. Also, based on your description of TN I’d expect it to look like Illinois where most homicides occurs in specific areas of Chicago

            • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Memphis and Nashville… that’s where the gangs are and where the majority of the violence is. This isn’t an unknown thing. Both counties that hold those cities are have a high murder rate. This goes for basically all large cities, it shouldn’t be a surprise.

              • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                Funny how Seattle is dangerous because of BLM, and Tennessee is dangerous because of Memphis (majority Black city), and “gangs”.

                I definitely see a pattern with what you consider dangerous…

                • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  O nooo the white privileged white guy is pointing out that only black people are in gangs…the fuck is wrong with you? Can’t refute points…run to the defense of calling someone a racist. Get a grip child.

          • stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            I literally lived in the CHOP. My apartment was where it was founded. Just stop, other than the police abusing people and paramedics allowing people to die, nothing at all happened.

        • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          I live in Texas and see people strapped pretty often, but they usually aren’t like waving it around or anything.

        • WoahWoah@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I wouldn’t be so sure. I saw someone pull a gun at a fast-food drivethrough because there was a disagreement about whether the dude ordered french fries. And you’re literally responding to an article about a kid killing his sister with a gun over presents. What makes it so unbelievable to you?

          • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            9 months ago

            I’m not doubting guns have been used in road rage incidents before, I’m doubting he’s seen it 6 times since the pandemic.

            And I’m doubting the effectiveness over a blinker because tbh I’m not making eye contact with other drivers at 75mph, I’m a little busy, so I won’t even see the gun like I would “the flashing light called a turn signal.”

              • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                Fair, I assumed he meant since then, but it looks like he hasn’t seen anyone do that since the pandemic maybe? Are we just referring to all of recorded history before 2019 as “pre-pandemic” now?

                In any case I don’t believe this dude has seen it happen six times in his life or any of his past lives, flat out.

            • WoahWoah@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              He wasn’t saying it was effective. And typically on freeways and interstates, the speed differential between cars, which are also all moving in the same direction, makes it much easier to make eye contact and see individuals in their cars.

              The lack of a large speed differential is also one of the reasons assisted driving systems are most effective on interstates, freeways, and highways.

              • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                He wasn’t saying it was effective.

                He indicated their success by neglecting to use the word “try.”

                And typically on freeways and interstates, the speed differential between cars, which are also all moving in the same direction, makes it much easier to make eye contact and see individuals in their cars.

                Keep your eyes on the road man, you’re going to get in an accident.

                The lack of a large speed differential is also one of the reasons assisted driving systems are most effective on interstates, freeways, and highways.

                Do they brake for armed motorists?

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        I think it is generally unlikely but am also sure that there are places where this is part of the culture.

        In Florida you’re allowed to use lethal force if you justifiably believe that your safety is threatened. When lockdown first started, there was a video of a dude having a meltdown at a Costco because he had to wear a mask. The person at the door was a woman of 65-70 and the man child pumped up his chest and yelled “I feel threatened” at her, which I learned in Florida for threatening to murder someone over an inconvenience.

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    9 months ago

    Jesus.

    The 14 year old brother shot his 23 year old sister.

    Then the 15 year old brother shot the 14 year old brother, and disposed of the handgun.

    The 23 year old sister is dead. The 14 year old brother is stable.

    The 14 year old is being charged with first degree murder. The 15 year old is being charged with attempted first degree murder.

    The sister had a child, which was not harmed.

      • Empricorn@feddit.nl
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        9 months ago

        …and preventable. Emotional teenagers should not have access to firearms!

        • merc@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          Emotional teenagers should not have access to firearms!

          Emotional humans should not have access to firearms, except under exceptional circumstances.

          The US military knows this and it’s why most people on military bases are not allowed to walk around armed, though they all have access to weapons when necessary.

        • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          Well legally they don’t have access to firearms. They also shouldn’t have access to Heroin, and legally they don’t, but it killed 3 of my friends before we even graduated, so in practice…

    • anguo@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago

      The 23 year old sister had 2 children, one of which was already 6 years old, if my reading skills aren’t failing me.

      • Patches@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        This reads like a shitty math problem.

        Jamal, 14M, shoots his 23 year old sister, Abriele, dead. Abriele had a 6 year old son How many years will it take for the 6 year old to be old enough to kill his Uncle in cold blood on Christmas? And what age will Jamal be?

    • Fat Tony@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Apparently the sister died from drowning on her OWN blood.

      Anyway, merry jolly Christmas everyone!

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      The sister had a child, which was not harmed.

      I thought you said “armed”, and if only… if that kid had been packing he could have been the good guy with a gun who would have mowed down all the bad guys and saved the day.

  • Schwim Dandy@reddthat.com
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    9 months ago

    More guns in the hands of the other children would have kept this travesty from occurring. #hopesandprayers

    'Murica!

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      9 months ago

      If the 11-month old was armed, all this could have been stopped!

    • perviouslyiner@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      There was - it made things worse:

      The 15-year-old brother came outside with his own semiautomatic handgun and allegedly shot the younger teen in the stomach

  • stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    Unclear why second brother being charged with attempted murder but it is presumably because there was a delay between the two shootings.

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    9 months ago

    Strict liability for whoever was the legal owner of the gun(s), I say.

    Whoever let these children get their hands on the firearm is absolutely a murderer. Even if it someone who let their gun get stolen from their car. Definitely if it was a family member or friend.

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      9 months ago

      Oh, I remember that event with an actor killing a camera operator with a prop gun (jokingly pointing it at her) or something.

      The person responsible for props was a complete dumb baboon and guilty of murder, yes.

      However, I was shocked by the fact that so many people think that pointing a real gun, even if it’s a prop, at somebody without checking that it’s not loaded is normal and thus that actor was innocent. They were defending that action as if they themselves would really have taken a gun and squeezed the trigger while pointing at someone without checking.

      So maybe it’s about responsibility and education, not ownership of guns.

      Because, say, Moldova (off the top of my mind), hardly a rich country or even with a healthy society, has gun laws more liberal than in USA, and doesn’t have school shootings and such events.

      Switzerland and Austria have very liberal gun laws, again possibly more so than in USA, and don’t have such a problem.

      • admiralteal@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        Can’t speak for Moldova or Austria, but I would not call Switzerland’s gun laws liberal.

        They are VERY strict. Gun ownership rates are high, but there are tons of restrictions and licensing requirements on ownership and sale of guns there. The country is proof that having a strong regulatory structure does not necessarily prevent gun ownership and should absolutely be considered a model for where the US regulator environment should be moving (universal registration including 2nd hand sales, full license checks for all purchases including ammo, effective bans on large categories of weapons, mandatory training, and the like).

        People who love “gun rights” always cite Switzerland without even doing the most basic Wikipedia-level research on it.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          9 months ago

          People who love “gun rights” always cite Switzerland without even doing the most basic Wikipedia-level research on it.

          People winning arguments in their heads shouldn’t come to real ones.

      • Herbal Gamer@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        and Austria have very liberal gun laws, again possibly more so than in USA,

        Austria has relatively relaxed gun laws for Europe. but it’s still fairly strict compared to the USA.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          9 months ago

          Oh, OK, OK. I’ve literally had something in my memory and did only quick reading on laws in those 2 countries before writing that comment, and evaluated strictness on my own.

      • hpca01@programming.dev
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        9 months ago

        Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t those places where you’re required to take some kind of classes to be able to qualify to own a gun? Isn’t it also pretty easy for anyone from the police to be able to take them from you within reason if they find you to be violating some laws?

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          9 months ago

          Yeah. If “taking some kind of classes” is not obligatory in the US, then we have the main reason for all the accidental shootings and kids takings their parents’ guns right here.

          • Stumblinbear@pawb.social
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            9 months ago

            Depends on the state if it’s required. Not required in Kansas, but required in Minnesota as an example

      • KISSmyOS@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        You can’t put the responsibility on the actor who never chose to own a gun, so they have no reason to educate themselves about gun safety.
        All responsibility lies with their employer (I guess that’s the producer and/or director), who made them handle a gun as part of their job and should have given them the required training, as well as the prop guy whose job it was to check the gun.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          9 months ago

          on the actor who never chose to own a gun, so they have no reason to educate themselves about gun safety.

          He chose to take it, point it at a person and squeeze the trigger, so yes he had that reason and yes I can.

          Jokingly, I should add, he wasn’t instructed by anyone to take that gun and wave it around.

          The only people not having a reason to educate themselves about gun safety are people who don’t touch guns.

          All responsibility lies with their employer (I guess that’s the producer and/or director), who made them handle a gun as part of their job and should have given them the required training,

          Yeah, they probably managed to make only the prop guy responsible too, just like that actor. But I don’t remember the details.

          as well as the prop guy whose job it was to check the gun.

          … and about that person I’ve already said what I wanted.

  • Hadriscus@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    This would never have happened if the sister had had a gun of her own : she would have been able to retaliate, and kill her brother before he could kill her, and we would have gotten a happy ending. I just don’t understand, it seems so simple to me : just issue a gun to every child over the age of 5 (months)! There, done !

  • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    [The 14-year-old boy has] been charged with first-degree murder, child abuse and being a delinquent in possession of a firearm, police said. “These young kids — 14, 15 years old — routinely carry firearms…”

    This is where USA culture feels alien to me. It is well known that children at that age tend to have poor emotional regulation, and underdeveloped physical and mental skills. The adults have duty of care, and they’ve allowed the child to wield a gun and kill someone. I would think that surely the parents have been criminally negligent in this case. But no, in the USA it’s apparently totally normal for children to carry around lethal weapons as though they were a toy. The outcome is sad, but unsurprising.