As someone who shaves regularly, my skin finally cleared when I began using alcohol and fragrance free aftershave lotion.

Too bad we’re too busy fighting endless capitalist manufactured culture wars. Shame we cant put it aside and end capitalist control of our government. Guess humanity is over then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And from what I can tell there is no way to convey this point to people effectively. Shit half the time someone reluctantly agrees with me I still know that nothing changed for them. Kind of like “yeah what you’re saying is true, but what-about…”.

If we cant stop demonizing each other we are fucked, especially when in the end the people who everyone is fighting against, are actually just like 5-10% of the population on other side of the aisle. I truly believe the large majority of people don’t really care that much and just vote the way they always have because that’s how they were raised, but social media and the news has tricked everyone into thinking that 1 side of the aisle are a bunch of transexual communist’s who get pregnant just so they can abort it, and the other side of the aisle are polishing there SS uniforms and dreaming about when they can finally go on a liberal killing spree. The truth is the people worthy of that level of critique are not most people, we are just being propagandized at levels the world has not seen before.

I was once told that it isn’t about making your mind blank, it’s about acknowledging the thought that rolls into your mind, and then letting it go. The idea being to train yourself to let trains of thought go. When I’m being a huge dick to myself with my inner monologue I can sometimes remember “oh yeah! I can just not think about this” and then I’ll let my mind go elsewhere.

“Explain it to me like I’m 10 or i cant understand it.”

as opposed to extremists, who take the simplest, least nuanced, most insulting take they can of anyone with a different opinion, and assume that that is what those with a different opinion are doing.

And then you went and did exactly what he said, you threw nuance out of the window, made broad assumptions of all parties motives, and then levied a “with us or against us” thinking to it.

We could all chill the fuck out and focus on real issues. Issues like how the ruling class inflames these wedge issues like abortion, and woke ideology for this exact purpose, so we are too busy fighting each other to care enough about being robbed so we don’t band together and end capitalism… Most people think the way they are told to by their peer groups, that is to say their values are a byproduct of environment, and as long as our government continues to let billionaires exist, they will continue exploiting large groups of people to fight each other over issues, those issues, that if we were all left alone to our own devices, i feel pretty certain we wouldn’t be fighting over.

Let me be clear by saying i agree these wedge issues actually matter, but that’s why they are effective tools. But fighting over them creates more division which makes the wedge issues more serious, but if we could just collectively agree we are sick of capitalist money in politics and collectively force the government to end it, within 5-10 years you would see that we can have common sense policies again. But we cant do that while divided.

For me I see 2 things happening. 1) I see capitalism destroying the world rapidly, for real, while we are fighting each other over social issues global warming is rapidly closing in on ending our species. 2) I see a population trained to hate each other that cannot stand together against the ruling class that is going to destroy us all just so that they can live like gods on private islands.

This is what gets me, even when you make well reasoned arguments like this people just collectively what-about-ism you into the floor, and we drifter closer to the end. It feels like screaming into a vacuum…

Does anyone consider that there might be a large number of the people that consider themselves to be centrists are near the actual center, and that everyone dunking on them is imagining center of our current Overton window? I think about that a lot. (Not the guy in the meme, just in general)

I mean, even if not, why do both sides shit on them instead of trying to bring them closer to their side?

Do we not want to make change? Because you need people for that. Are we just concerned about being correct? Because that does nothing to solve our problems.

Those Capitalist of the Gilded Age were fucking amateurs compared to the billionaires of the modern day, where propaganda has been distilled down to a science, and is being force fed to everyone every day at every angle.

They wish they had the tools we’re unraveling society with today.

“If properly contained” doing a lot of heavy lifting in this statement haha.

I misspoke, I believe you said facist sympathizers if they vote for trump previously.

Just general left and right. I think the majority of the issues people have with centrists is they’re looking at the overton window (and also lets be real the majority of americans thoughts dont go past “my side best side”). Which honestly i think even acknowledging the overton helps guide us farther right by allowing it to change what we see as left and right.

It sounds like were at an impasse, I want to fix the problem before it evolves farther, but you think its already past saving, or at the very least you can only see a route to saving the country that goes through calling half the country fascists and hoping they listen.

So i was going to say that this isn’t even revolutionary, its just representation. Now I’m chuckling thinking about how the founders warned us against the poison of a two party system, and they WERE revolutionaries, so shit maybe haha.

Removing a two party system is not socialism by anyone’s definition of the word though?

I never said anything about the middle. I was specific to the GOP/Trump supporters.

But there are moderate republicans that have voted red for so long they cant vote blue because of habit and endless rhetoric. While they are facist sympathizers in that they vote red with their ehad in the sand, wether they know it or not, what do you gain by calling them that? Nothing really, its just inflammatory, and it will drive them farther towards the facist ideology as it will be the only place that will accept them.

Dealing with this requires criticism, and forcing them to see the error of their ways whether they like it or not.

Hard disagree. You should look into how to change peoples minds, because if you start by calling them a facist sympathizer its over. This is the biggest reason I’m against this kind of speech, while true, that person wont identify as such, but they will recognize the attack on them, put up their guard, and then its done. If you want to convince people of stuff, you have to find middle ground with them first and then broach topics from your point of view without speaking in antagonizing labels, or find a way to show how you both actually want the same thing, its a slow process, but it requires finding common ground to approach the topics you really want to convince them on from.

The germans didn’t change their minds until they were forcibly marched to the camps to see the death and destruction they wrought upon the jews and other prisoners.

This just shows how people need proof to accept things sometimes, the conversation is about changing minds and reducing polarization though, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make with this. If its that they need to be called facists to learn, you are mistaken. Personal attacks never lead to a change of mind. You are better off showing (note: not calling, but showing) how the republican party are facists, than by calling the voters facists. In fact even using the word facist wont help, you may have better progress by getting them to agree the constitution is a marvelous document we should protect, they will agree, this is common ground, then you say something like “its a real shame it doesn’t hold the supreme court accountable for bribes though” or maybe “its a real shame that they are trying to give the executive branch unchecked power” as this is definitely not what the framers ever had in mind, its the exact opposite,. But this is how you argue stuff to affect change.

If we are going to put effort into fixing this problem we should fix it right, we shouldn’t take half measures.

Great is the enemy of good, anything that gets rid of the 2 party system while allowing multiple parties can and should be supported whole heartedly. You cant get hung up on finding the best solution when the solution presented helps us not steer off of the cliff. But yes, we should fight for the best system, but rally behind whichever one is chosen in the end, much like every election, you wish the candidate was inline with your views, but you’ll swallow and vote for what is available anyways.

So does McDonald’s but that doesn’t mean it is a good choice.

It is better than our current system, this is good enough for me, and it should be for you, but again, any system that allows for multiple parties is a good choice.

Grow up

antagonizing catch phrase

Called it

I don’t. But I will still call republicans/GOP voters fascist sympathizers, because at a bare minimum if you’re still voting red, you’re sympathetic to Trump and therefore sympathetic to fascism. That’s still demonizing language, and it is deserved.

Yes keep pushing people closer to the middle farther to the right, dont try to meet them in middle in ideology, tell them theyre facists sympathizers so they go farther right.

And for those of his supporters who are fervent, and genuinely believe in his messaging, they’re clearly fascists. Nazis didn’t get a pass for falling victim to rhetoric, neither do fervent Trump supporters.

Yeah i agree with the fervant supporters, theyre fully in a cult now, nothing will bring them out of it.

And better voting systems will never be achievable until the two party system is abolished. The DNC and GOP establishment are both married to the two party system. We either take over the DNC with reformists, or things will continue to degrade until the point where people have nothing left to lose and take to the streets violently.

Yeah ive said about the same thing in other comments on this thread, its a pipe dream, but i can see no other way the country doesnt slip into destruction, so ill keep advocating for it.

I’d recommend you look into approval and star voting, as RCV has a number of critical weaknesses.

I will take anything that removes our 2 party system, i dont care what it is. But RCV has name recognition at this point.

Yes the media did it, then we did it online everywhere, in our social circles, on facebook, endlessly. And while i recognize that its the media fault, i can also accept the role i played in it as a stupid teenager participating in it within my own circles.

Your second argument is just in such bad faith, i feel like I’m arguing with an angsty teen. I never said we give into what they want and let them run wild. I said we need to understand them and knock off the constant demonization or all you’re going to do is bolster their numbers, fight them without the endless ad hominem, argue against the idea and not the individual, stop labeling everyone you don’t like a facist, because when you do that you’re essentially just recruiting for actual facists by pushing more and more moderate people to them. I’m fairly certain at this point you still wont understand what I’m saying and you will come up with some antagonizing catch phrase in response so I’m done here, id hope you spend some time thinking on this, but it sounds like youve made up your mind.

It will never happen, dems and gop would have to work together to dilute their own power? Its a pipe dream to be sure, but the only way i think the country can fix itself.