The tech costs more than conventional options upfront, but federal tax credits, new 120V models and strong savings have made them more appealing than ever.
As opposed to resistive electric heaters? Well, that’s hardly a surprise. It’s not going to come close to being as cheap as NG though, and an NG heater is 1/4 of the price.
Heat pumps are nearly as cheap in Ohio as NG and save you money over the life of your house. Despite being run by MAGA, Ohio has some pretty sweet green energy subsidies and tax write-offs.
It’s also more energy efficient and therefore less environmentally burdensome in a lot of cases to use natural gas to generate electricity and transmit that electricity to your house to power a heat pump, than it is to directly pipe gas into your house and burn it even in a high efficiency appliance. This is because a heat pump literally gathers ambient energy from the environment and can typically concentrate 4x as much heat per unit electricity input than the electricity itself can provide if directly converted into heat.
Basically, they’re the closest thing we have to one of those fake overunity machines where a motor turns a generator that’s powering the motor.
That’s another important point: if you are using a heat pump water heater, the source for your heat is the air in your house. If you have a gas furnace and a heat pump water heater, all winter long you are heating your water with gas, and using extra electricity to do it.
Heat pump water heaters make perfect sense in the summer, though. And they’d make even more sense on the top floor of your house than in a cool basement.
I haven’t seen those offered in my area, but In that case, I’ll have similar criticism in about 6 months, when I have to run a separate AC unit to pull heat out of the house. It’s almost like the water heater should be able to use either internal or external air as a source.
This is example highlights the benefits of heat pumps as the heat from the gas furnace is waste heat from something functioning on an entirely separate purpose that will occur independently from the water heater. In turn this situation benefits the heat pump as it is actually more efficient to scavenge the wasted heat from the gas furnace. It is super odd that your post is suggesting that it is not efficient because it is using “extra electricity” when the efficiency is from reduced running costs(money) and not hype fixating on just electrical usage. On the flipside, a gas water heater will use extra gas to heat the water, too! This is just silly
A furnace puts BTUs into the house. A heat pump furnace pulls BTUs from the atmosphere and pushes them into the house; a gas furnace extracts BTUs from fuel and puts them into the house. An electric furnace extracts BTUs from electrical energy, and puts them into the house.
The heat pump water heater pulls BTUs from the house and pushes them into the water. They use internal air as their heat source. They do not draw heat from the outside atmosphere; they draw heat from the furnace-heated air inside the house.
The two systems are not “separate” or “independent”. The heat pump water heater is daisy chained to the furnace. Both use the same, household air for opposite purposes: one sinks heat into the house, the other sources heat from the house.
And how is it a bad thing that it is making good use of the heat around the furnace to heat up water? You do realize that the electricity in the heat pump also is making some heat on its own.
All that energy can be harvested for a hot shower or bath instead of having a heat pump outside in the colder temps running at a lower efficiency. On top of that, the furnace will not always be running throughout the year, and the warmer months will be more beneficial to have the heat pump than a gas water heater.
I am assuming that the heat pump water tank and gas furnace are in the basement, or garage. not inside the well insulated house…
On top of that, the hot air is directed out of the gas furnace to the house, while the air surrounding the gas furnace is lost heat that can be scavenged by the heat pump. They are independent and work for separate reasons.
I am assuming that the heat pump water tank and gas furnace are in the basement, or garage. not inside the well insulated house…
Ah. That’s the issue. Your assumption is faulty.
Water heaters have water lines leading to them. Anywhere the temperature regularly falls below freezing, the water heater must be located inside the heated structure, not exposed to the elements. Otherwise, the plumbing could freeze. The basement may be colder than the rest of the house, but it is still part of the heated structure.
If your basement, garage, or whatever room contains your water heater is not within the heated structure, you are living well south of Ohio.
The Washington State Building Code Council voted to update the state energy code to require all-electric water heating in new multifamily and commercial buildings.
Until recently, all of my installations had been in basements here in upstate New York. There are several obvious advantages to locating a heat pump water heater in a basement.
It’s definitely not something the south states are alone in installing water heated tanks in basements or the garage.
I’m in the market for a water heater in Ohio. The cheapest heat pump water heater I could find is more than twice the price of a typical NG heater. Where are you finding them for anything remotely close to the same price?
One important thing to note: heat pump water heaters take heat from the house and put it into the water. In an Ohio winter, that might not be desirable: you’re paying for the heat from the furnace, then paying for the same heat again into the tank.
There’s a federal tax credit worth 2k for HPWH. I’m not aware of any Ohio specific subsidies, although there are programs coming through the IRA that are run through the states and will offer more incentives.
The tax credit is 30% of the total project price, up to $2k. If the HPWH is over double the cost of NG, you’re still paying quite a bit more even with the tax credit.
Wow that’s wild, man, maybe it’s because I had to do a whole rip job on my heater? I sunk $20k into my heating and cooling system this year. Was a fuckin nightmare. Maybe if you’re going whole cloth the savings show up more?
You’re talking about HVAC while everyone else is talking about water heaters. I think it’s pretty well demonstrated that heat pumps for HVAC are the way to go but not for heating water.
Replace your furnace with a heat pump long before you even think about upgrading your water heater.
Think of a HPWH as an air conditioner, that dumps heat into water instead of the outside air. Do you want your furnace and your air conditioner running in your home simultaneously? All winter long, that is what a HPWH will be doing. Because your furnace heats your house, and the HPWH gets it heat from your house, your furnace will be providing the heat for your water as well.
In summer, HPWHs make perfect sense. The HPWH will be working with your AC instead of against your furnace.
If you have a heat pump HVAC system, a HPWH is just a second stage heat pump. Your HVAC is still going to be providing the heat for your water as well as the house, but the heat pump HVAC can provide heat more efficiently than a gas water heater or resistive electric water heater. Since the HVAC heat pump is more efficient than a traditional water heater, it is reasonable to shift that water heating load onto your HVAC with a HPWH.
Make sure your HVAC heat pump installer knows you want to install a HPWH in the future. You’ll want to make sure your HVAC heat pump is sized a little larger than normal.
Right now, and that’s not even the case everywhere in the world. In many parts of Europe, the operational costs of heat pumps are already lower than those of gas furnaces.
Gas is cheaper to run as well, although that is more subject to the wonders of international incidents.
I like the idea of a renewable energy way to heat the home, as trickling the heat in would work there, run the electricity when it’s cheaper and that, but for hot water, gas is just so convenient. A heat pump is never going to produce enough concentrated energy to run a bath or have a shower more powerful than a piss.
Hated having a water tank when I had a rubbish old gas boiler, and I’m not going back to one if I can avoid it.
There are electric water heaters that can take the preheated water from the general system and give it the last boost to exactly the temperature you desire. Ideally those would be installed relatively close to wherever you need the water. They are less efficient, but on the plus side, they only heat whenever and exactly how much you need
As opposed to resistive electric heaters? Well, that’s hardly a surprise. It’s not going to come close to being as cheap as NG though, and an NG heater is 1/4 of the price.
Heat pumps are nearly as cheap in Ohio as NG and save you money over the life of your house. Despite being run by MAGA, Ohio has some pretty sweet green energy subsidies and tax write-offs.
Great substitute for geothermal.
It’s also more energy efficient and therefore less environmentally burdensome in a lot of cases to use natural gas to generate electricity and transmit that electricity to your house to power a heat pump, than it is to directly pipe gas into your house and burn it even in a high efficiency appliance. This is because a heat pump literally gathers ambient energy from the environment and can typically concentrate 4x as much heat per unit electricity input than the electricity itself can provide if directly converted into heat.
Basically, they’re the closest thing we have to one of those fake overunity machines where a motor turns a generator that’s powering the motor.
That’s another important point: if you are using a heat pump water heater, the source for your heat is the air in your house. If you have a gas furnace and a heat pump water heater, all winter long you are heating your water with gas, and using extra electricity to do it.
Heat pump water heaters make perfect sense in the summer, though. And they’d make even more sense on the top floor of your house than in a cool basement.
There are multiple kinds of heat pump water heaters.
For the one I have, only the tank is inside. The full heat pump is outside, and water is piped between it and the tank.
I haven’t seen those offered in my area, but In that case, I’ll have similar criticism in about 6 months, when I have to run a separate AC unit to pull heat out of the house. It’s almost like the water heater should be able to use either internal or external air as a source.
This is example highlights the benefits of heat pumps as the heat from the gas furnace is waste heat from something functioning on an entirely separate purpose that will occur independently from the water heater. In turn this situation benefits the heat pump as it is actually more efficient to scavenge the wasted heat from the gas furnace. It is super odd that your post is suggesting that it is not efficient because it is using “extra electricity” when the efficiency is from reduced running costs(money) and not hype fixating on just electrical usage. On the flipside, a gas water heater will use extra gas to heat the water, too! This is just silly
A furnace puts BTUs into the house. A heat pump furnace pulls BTUs from the atmosphere and pushes them into the house; a gas furnace extracts BTUs from fuel and puts them into the house. An electric furnace extracts BTUs from electrical energy, and puts them into the house.
The heat pump water heater pulls BTUs from the house and pushes them into the water. They use internal air as their heat source. They do not draw heat from the outside atmosphere; they draw heat from the furnace-heated air inside the house.
The two systems are not “separate” or “independent”. The heat pump water heater is daisy chained to the furnace. Both use the same, household air for opposite purposes: one sinks heat into the house, the other sources heat from the house.
And how is it a bad thing that it is making good use of the heat around the furnace to heat up water? You do realize that the electricity in the heat pump also is making some heat on its own.
All that energy can be harvested for a hot shower or bath instead of having a heat pump outside in the colder temps running at a lower efficiency. On top of that, the furnace will not always be running throughout the year, and the warmer months will be more beneficial to have the heat pump than a gas water heater.
I am assuming that the heat pump water tank and gas furnace are in the basement, or garage. not inside the well insulated house…
On top of that, the hot air is directed out of the gas furnace to the house, while the air surrounding the gas furnace is lost heat that can be scavenged by the heat pump. They are independent and work for separate reasons.
Ah. That’s the issue. Your assumption is faulty.
Water heaters have water lines leading to them. Anywhere the temperature regularly falls below freezing, the water heater must be located inside the heated structure, not exposed to the elements. Otherwise, the plumbing could freeze. The basement may be colder than the rest of the house, but it is still part of the heated structure.
If your basement, garage, or whatever room contains your water heater is not within the heated structure, you are living well south of Ohio.
https://www.coffman.com/news/water-heating-washington-standard/
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/where-does-the-heat-pump-water-heater-go
It’s definitely not something the south states are alone in installing water heated tanks in basements or the garage.
I’m in the market for a water heater in Ohio. The cheapest heat pump water heater I could find is more than twice the price of a typical NG heater. Where are you finding them for anything remotely close to the same price?
One important thing to note: heat pump water heaters take heat from the house and put it into the water. In an Ohio winter, that might not be desirable: you’re paying for the heat from the furnace, then paying for the same heat again into the tank.
There’s a federal tax credit worth 2k for HPWH. I’m not aware of any Ohio specific subsidies, although there are programs coming through the IRA that are run through the states and will offer more incentives.
Up to* $2k. Just for the sake of clarity.
The tax credit is 30% of the total project price, up to $2k. If the HPWH is over double the cost of NG, you’re still paying quite a bit more even with the tax credit.
Wow that’s wild, man, maybe it’s because I had to do a whole rip job on my heater? I sunk $20k into my heating and cooling system this year. Was a fuckin nightmare. Maybe if you’re going whole cloth the savings show up more?
You’re talking about HVAC while everyone else is talking about water heaters. I think it’s pretty well demonstrated that heat pumps for HVAC are the way to go but not for heating water.
That makes sense.
As a fellow Ohioan with old ass HVAC and a furnace. Where can Iearn more?!
Replace your furnace with a heat pump long before you even think about upgrading your water heater.
Think of a HPWH as an air conditioner, that dumps heat into water instead of the outside air. Do you want your furnace and your air conditioner running in your home simultaneously? All winter long, that is what a HPWH will be doing. Because your furnace heats your house, and the HPWH gets it heat from your house, your furnace will be providing the heat for your water as well.
In summer, HPWHs make perfect sense. The HPWH will be working with your AC instead of against your furnace.
If you have a heat pump HVAC system, a HPWH is just a second stage heat pump. Your HVAC is still going to be providing the heat for your water as well as the house, but the heat pump HVAC can provide heat more efficiently than a gas water heater or resistive electric water heater. Since the HVAC heat pump is more efficient than a traditional water heater, it is reasonable to shift that water heating load onto your HVAC with a HPWH.
Make sure your HVAC heat pump installer knows you want to install a HPWH in the future. You’ll want to make sure your HVAC heat pump is sized a little larger than normal.
I’m expecting US methane gas prices to rise to match the much higher global LNG price due to the large number of export terminals under construction.
Right now, and that’s not even the case everywhere in the world. In many parts of Europe, the operational costs of heat pumps are already lower than those of gas furnaces.
Gas is cheaper to run as well, although that is more subject to the wonders of international incidents.
I like the idea of a renewable energy way to heat the home, as trickling the heat in would work there, run the electricity when it’s cheaper and that, but for hot water, gas is just so convenient. A heat pump is never going to produce enough concentrated energy to run a bath or have a shower more powerful than a piss.
Hated having a water tank when I had a rubbish old gas boiler, and I’m not going back to one if I can avoid it.
There are electric water heaters that can take the preheated water from the general system and give it the last boost to exactly the temperature you desire. Ideally those would be installed relatively close to wherever you need the water. They are less efficient, but on the plus side, they only heat whenever and exactly how much you need