When men see other men who are successful with women, that’s exactly what it looks like. Confidence is attractive to people. When the attraction is mutual, expecting that you’re entitled to affection is exactly the appropriate response.
The conflict happens when one person misses the signs that the attraction is not mutual and keeps pursuing which comes across as creepy etc. and yes women
It’s not so black and white. If it were life would probably be pretty boring.
It’s probably rude to say it but when guys ask girls out, the primary reason is most likely they want to have sex. You can have other activities and traits you enjoy sharing together as well, and there is absolutely more to life than having sex.
Men and women have similar and different complex wants and needs. Life is hard yes. But if we’re going to be offended about male sexuality then I guess we’re going to have to keep pretending that men don’t think about sex as much as they do.
Generic advice often sounds to some guys like… ok I should try to be friends with her and pretend I don’t want to have sex. The guy wants sex and will follow any advice and process to reach that goal. To tell the guy to not want sex is useless advice, because he wants it.
I see your point about having values and not basing your validation and ego around what other people think of you, it’s very important for healthy self esteem. But there’s no simple answer and we all have to navigate our complex personal relationships on the fly as we go, and some lessons are difficult to learn. I don’t have the answers but it’s interesting discussion.
I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Nobody is ever entitled to affection whether somebody is attracted to them or not. Even in a committed relationship. You can expect it, but you’re never entitled to it.
You can put your head in the sand if you like, I prefer living in reality. Where semantics are much less difficult to understand than actual human interactions and relationships.
You’re trying to draw a red line in on invisible sand and saying don’t cross this line. No one but you knows where that line is but you will know it when they cross the line, and if they do they are a bad person. This doesn’t help us become better people but I guess it makes you feel superior because you’re in the right?
Hm. You’re projecting a lot into this conversation. There is no semantics with consent. Nobody is entitled to anybody’s affection and much less their body (I know you didn’t say this part but this whole discussion is about sex so I imagine it’s implied). No superiority here. That’s all in your head. I’m just trying to explain how it is and why some people might be feeling rejected.
We can and should validate everybody’s feelings but not at the expense of others’ safety and autonomy, and we can validate feelings while at the same time not enabling and perpetuating bad behavior that got the person feeling rejected in the first place.
All due respect, just telling it like it is. No ego here.
Dalto is right, we are talking past one another. You’re not looking at the context of what I was saying and you are just saying consent is consent. That’s all well and good but navigating that is not black and white. Human relationships are more complex than just saying consent is consent and no one is entitled. It’s just a talking point but in reality relationships are complex and nuanced. Autonomy and consent is really important and necessary in relationships especially sexual ones.
When men see other men who are successful with women, that’s exactly what it looks like. Confidence is attractive to people. When the attraction is mutual, expecting that you’re entitled to affection is exactly the appropriate response.
The conflict happens when one person misses the signs that the attraction is not mutual and keeps pursuing which comes across as creepy etc. and yes women
It’s not so black and white. If it were life would probably be pretty boring.
It’s probably rude to say it but when guys ask girls out, the primary reason is most likely they want to have sex. You can have other activities and traits you enjoy sharing together as well, and there is absolutely more to life than having sex.
Men and women have similar and different complex wants and needs. Life is hard yes. But if we’re going to be offended about male sexuality then I guess we’re going to have to keep pretending that men don’t think about sex as much as they do.
Generic advice often sounds to some guys like… ok I should try to be friends with her and pretend I don’t want to have sex. The guy wants sex and will follow any advice and process to reach that goal. To tell the guy to not want sex is useless advice, because he wants it.
I see your point about having values and not basing your validation and ego around what other people think of you, it’s very important for healthy self esteem. But there’s no simple answer and we all have to navigate our complex personal relationships on the fly as we go, and some lessons are difficult to learn. I don’t have the answers but it’s interesting discussion.
I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Nobody is ever entitled to affection whether somebody is attracted to them or not. Even in a committed relationship. You can expect it, but you’re never entitled to it.
You can put your head in the sand if you like, I prefer living in reality. Where semantics are much less difficult to understand than actual human interactions and relationships.
You’re trying to draw a red line in on invisible sand and saying don’t cross this line. No one but you knows where that line is but you will know it when they cross the line, and if they do they are a bad person. This doesn’t help us become better people but I guess it makes you feel superior because you’re in the right?
Hm. You’re projecting a lot into this conversation. There is no semantics with consent. Nobody is entitled to anybody’s affection and much less their body (I know you didn’t say this part but this whole discussion is about sex so I imagine it’s implied). No superiority here. That’s all in your head. I’m just trying to explain how it is and why some people might be feeling rejected.
We can and should validate everybody’s feelings but not at the expense of others’ safety and autonomy, and we can validate feelings while at the same time not enabling and perpetuating bad behavior that got the person feeling rejected in the first place.
All due respect, just telling it like it is. No ego here.
Dalto is right, we are talking past one another. You’re not looking at the context of what I was saying and you are just saying consent is consent. That’s all well and good but navigating that is not black and white. Human relationships are more complex than just saying consent is consent and no one is entitled. It’s just a talking point but in reality relationships are complex and nuanced. Autonomy and consent is really important and necessary in relationships especially sexual ones.
All good. We’re not gonna solve sexism here. Best wishes to you and all current and future relationships, romantic or otherwise.