So what would you want people to do when their kids/grandkids ask them what they did to stop a genocide? Isn’t Lemmy always screaming about, regardless of the reasoning, a Nazi is a Nazi.
I cant have kids, but if Im ever in that position Ill tell them exactly what I told you: I did not believe that position politically viable and am perfectly willing to gamble in lives because you have to be in politics. Thats alot of what politics is. Additionally, they sure didnt give af about preventing my genocide at home. In fact, alot of them probably support it if anything, so why tf should I care about theirs halfway across the world?
So it’s ok to force me to support a genocide, rather than shift your p[arty’s platform to reflect what the voters actually want?
“Your issue clearly didn’t matter, so stfu and blame yourself for having fucking convictions.”
Or, here’s an idea: if the same people are bringing the same concern to you consistently over the course of two fucking years, maybe you, the candidate, need to rethink your. policies.
Or, maybe they kept it up despite being ignored for two years because it was that fucking important to them as an issue.
What a fucking joke, you seriously read what you’re writing here and go, “Oh yeah, I am so smart, I know everything.”
Im gonna come back to this alot. But yes, sometimes it IS inconvenient. You clearly either do not understand or reject the idea of realpolitik.
Your issue clearly didn’t matter, so stfu and blame yourself for having fucking convictions."
Or, here’s an idea: if the same people are bringing the same concern to you consistently over the course of two fucking years, maybe you, the candidate, need to rethink your policies.
Or, maybe they kept it up despite being ignored for two years because it was that fucking important to them as an issue.
What a fucking joke, you seriously read what you’re writing here and go, “Oh yeah, I am so smart, I know everything.”
It clearly was ONLY important to you. Maybe that’s an unpleasant reality, but its the one we get to deal with. Much like the fact that most Americans are either facist, stupid, or both. Thats a horrible situation that makes politics real unpleasant, but pretending it isnt is not exactly a winning strategy. Most of us either dont care about Gaza enough to change our position, or dont think doing so is actually a viable strategy rn.
Look at exit polls, most people cite the economy and immigration as concerns, Palestine isnt even on the chart. Obviously we cant poll voters who didnt vote, but Trump actually lost votes from 2020, just not as badly. Unless we assume that all 15 million of those dropped voters stayed home over Gaza- which isnt likely given said exit polls- there are more Americans voting FOR Fascism because they blame Dems for the economic effects of the pandemic, and cant stand sharing the country with Latin Americans; than there likely are Americans who stayed home over Gaza. If you have a poll which suggests orherwise, Id love to see it
And the primary thing makes zero sense to me, the Dems haven’t had an actual primary since Obama. 2016 they fucked Bernie over despite his popularity and forced Clinton on us, they basically forced through Biden by keep Warren in long enough to leech voters off a second Bernie run, and then we didn’t even have one.
So the DNC tells the American people, “You don’t get a say in who your candidate will be, and your candidate will also ignore you completely, but you have to vote for them.” And you blame the voters for being apathetic? Yeah, makes sense, it’s the fault of those not being represented for not being represented.
This used to be how both parties worked just as a point of fact. Primaries are a fairly new thing in the grand scheme. Its not your fault for not being represented, but it is for not taking the lesser evil. You chose not to vote, and that is your right. But that enables the worse candidate to win sometimes, you cant pretend like that isnt the case. Your vote and the DNC do not exist in a vacuum.
This is just elitist entitlement, “sEe WhAt i SaId AbovE aBoUt a ClEaR nO,” fuck off. You don’t get to dictate yes and no, the voters told the DNC how it would work: you change your policy on Palestine, or you don’t get our votes.
That wasnt me trying to dictate anyway, I just had already spoken on the subject and didnt want to repeat myself. Its not elitist to not say the same thing twice.
The DNC, through their arrogance, hubris, and entitlement, decided they felt the voters were bluffing, and called them on it.
And the voters didn’t bluff. Sure sounds to me like they all told the DNC “no,” and maybe y’all need to fucking get over it and accept that No you got from your base.
Again, exit polls. Palestine wasnt a big issue to anyone except you, and the Dems are a big tent party with liberals, never-Trumpers, proper Socialists, ect to try to appeal to. Thats what being in a coalition is. Sometimes you have to make big compromises. Or you can choose not to vote and risk sinking us all, which- to reiterate- is your right, but seems like a tactically foolish decision when Trump is objectively going to be even worse. Why, if you care so much about this genocide and are so unwilling to compromise, would you rather risk selling them out completely instead of mitigating the damage. Whether you like it or not, whether it was wise or not, the DNC was not going to compromise. An explicitly anti-Israel position was not on the table. So why would you risk electing the candidate who is even more pro-Israel if you care so much about Gaza?
And since we’re gonna play this bullshit “Explain to me why women’s and LGBT lives matter less than Palestinians,” I want you to explain to me why you weren’t standing with your Arab American brothers and sisters demanding their voices be heard? Where was your support of their concerns, I mean, it’s only fair you supported them like you’re demanding they support you, right?
I voted for Harris because, among those concerns for LGBT and womens rights, I also understood Trump would be even worse for Gaza. Would an explicitly anti-Israel candidate be nice, sure. But that wasnt on the table. That is me standing with those people affedtee in the most effective way available to me.
And then I want you to explain to me why those Palestinian lives matter less than American LGBT and women’s lives, because I sure would love to know why you feel entitled to their vote but they aren’t entitled to their lives.
Theyre not entitled to my vote either, and you cant be surprised a trans woman doesnt feel much sympathy for people whos religion is explicitly misogynistic and transphobic. Setting that aside, again, I did vote in the best way available to me for them.
And hows their strategy of trying to win moderates over instead going? Lost four out of the last 7 elections? Real winning strategy there, maybe it’ll work if we just double down and try to win even more moderate voters.
And the DNC doesn’t push progressive candidates because they don’t want progress, you fucking muppet. They’re the other side of the conservative coin, they only care about the status quo.
They have to compromise, the DNC, the voters are done and aren’t going to compromise anymore. And you can plug your ears and “but but but,” all you fucking want: Harris didn’t convince people she was worth voting for, full stop.
She fucking failed, she ran a loser campaign, and she fucking lost. And you’re so “vote blue no matter who” you can’t, or won’t, understand that people aren’t going to vote unless there’s something worth voting for.
Every policy was “Well, we’re just not gonna be as evil,” basically. And people were expected to save democracy based on that? They had a fucking grand slam lined up (I know you like metaphors and such) ready to go, and Harris decided to bunt instead of swinging for the fences.
Considering you’re so concerned about Gaza, I would think preventing the situation from getting even worse would be enough of a sell. If you think democracy is a good- and Im inferring you do- theb saving democracy should’ve earned your vote completely irrespective of who was running or what their policy was provided they will in fact save democracy. A rotten ham sandwhich shouldve earned your vote if you were being logically consistent. But you arent.
First: I’m a piece of shit when you think I haven’t voted for Harris, and then when I tell you I do, you mock me as if that was the bare minimum and I’m an idiot for think it means anything. So which is it, do you want to celebrate those who did vote for Harris, or was that just the expectation that you felt entitled to?
Second: I’ve already answered this and you just keep plugging your ears and screaming it’s the voters
Apparently Americans are so unhappy with the status quo, 14 million Dems chose to stay home. Maybe the Dems need to figure out what they did that made them so unpopular, and stop blaming their voting base for their failures.
One can do idiotic things without being an idiot. That being said, you want me to stand with Arab-Americans and Palestine by extension, here you go. Why should they trust voters like those who stayed home to advocate for them when- if your demands for justice are not conceded to- you would then elect the zionists over the status quo? Gaza is not a boolean vairable where things are so bad it doesnt matter what you do if you dont get justice, things can still get even worse. And you- who cares so much about advocating for them- would rather that happen if immediate justice is not onbthe table. You arent an idiot, but thats an idiotic position. (1/2, second part later. Im at work)
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I cant have kids, but if Im ever in that position Ill tell them exactly what I told you: I did not believe that position politically viable and am perfectly willing to gamble in lives because you have to be in politics. Thats alot of what politics is. Additionally, they sure didnt give af about preventing my genocide at home. In fact, alot of them probably support it if anything, so why tf should I care about theirs halfway across the world?
Im gonna come back to this alot. But yes, sometimes it IS inconvenient. You clearly either do not understand or reject the idea of realpolitik.
It clearly was ONLY important to you. Maybe that’s an unpleasant reality, but its the one we get to deal with. Much like the fact that most Americans are either facist, stupid, or both. Thats a horrible situation that makes politics real unpleasant, but pretending it isnt is not exactly a winning strategy. Most of us either dont care about Gaza enough to change our position, or dont think doing so is actually a viable strategy rn.
Look at exit polls, most people cite the economy and immigration as concerns, Palestine isnt even on the chart. Obviously we cant poll voters who didnt vote, but Trump actually lost votes from 2020, just not as badly. Unless we assume that all 15 million of those dropped voters stayed home over Gaza- which isnt likely given said exit polls- there are more Americans voting FOR Fascism because they blame Dems for the economic effects of the pandemic, and cant stand sharing the country with Latin Americans; than there likely are Americans who stayed home over Gaza. If you have a poll which suggests orherwise, Id love to see it
This used to be how both parties worked just as a point of fact. Primaries are a fairly new thing in the grand scheme. Its not your fault for not being represented, but it is for not taking the lesser evil. You chose not to vote, and that is your right. But that enables the worse candidate to win sometimes, you cant pretend like that isnt the case. Your vote and the DNC do not exist in a vacuum.
That wasnt me trying to dictate anyway, I just had already spoken on the subject and didnt want to repeat myself. Its not elitist to not say the same thing twice.
Again, exit polls. Palestine wasnt a big issue to anyone except you, and the Dems are a big tent party with liberals, never-Trumpers, proper Socialists, ect to try to appeal to. Thats what being in a coalition is. Sometimes you have to make big compromises. Or you can choose not to vote and risk sinking us all, which- to reiterate- is your right, but seems like a tactically foolish decision when Trump is objectively going to be even worse. Why, if you care so much about this genocide and are so unwilling to compromise, would you rather risk selling them out completely instead of mitigating the damage. Whether you like it or not, whether it was wise or not, the DNC was not going to compromise. An explicitly anti-Israel position was not on the table. So why would you risk electing the candidate who is even more pro-Israel if you care so much about Gaza?
I voted for Harris because, among those concerns for LGBT and womens rights, I also understood Trump would be even worse for Gaza. Would an explicitly anti-Israel candidate be nice, sure. But that wasnt on the table. That is me standing with those people affedtee in the most effective way available to me.
Theyre not entitled to my vote either, and you cant be surprised a trans woman doesnt feel much sympathy for people whos religion is explicitly misogynistic and transphobic. Setting that aside, again, I did vote in the best way available to me for them.
Considering you’re so concerned about Gaza, I would think preventing the situation from getting even worse would be enough of a sell. If you think democracy is a good- and Im inferring you do- theb saving democracy should’ve earned your vote completely irrespective of who was running or what their policy was provided they will in fact save democracy. A rotten ham sandwhich shouldve earned your vote if you were being logically consistent. But you arent.
One can do idiotic things without being an idiot. That being said, you want me to stand with Arab-Americans and Palestine by extension, here you go. Why should they trust voters like those who stayed home to advocate for them when- if your demands for justice are not conceded to- you would then elect the zionists over the status quo? Gaza is not a boolean vairable where things are so bad it doesnt matter what you do if you dont get justice, things can still get even worse. And you- who cares so much about advocating for them- would rather that happen if immediate justice is not onbthe table. You arent an idiot, but thats an idiotic position. (1/2, second part later. Im at work)