All the nitpicking aside, this is the ‘somebody’s gotta scrub the toilets’ argument right?
The simplest answer to this I can think of is, who scrubs the toilets in your home? It’s you right?
Do you do it because you own the toilet? Not necessarily because people who live in rented accommodation still scrub the toilet. So why? It’s because you have an interest in not living in a place with a filthy toilet. Now suppose you actually had a local community, you’d have an interest in making sure nobody was living with a filthy toilet they couldn’t clean because then they might get sick and you don’t want that because you’re a nice person and you don’t like seeing your friends hurt. So you’d probably set up a communal rota, which is basically what people here in the UK already do because elder care on the NHS doesn’t exist in practice.
The reality is that most people are self-interested and not at all ulturistic about things. They’ll begrudgingly clean their own toilet for their own sanitary sake but that line of thinking doesn’t do so well with public places.
Go into a public bathroom at a truck station or anywhere else that doesn’t have a paid worker to clean up the mess and you’ll see just how much people cooperate to keep it clean. Spoilers: they dont, because almost nobody wants to clean up after themselves let alone others germ filled shit stains, clogged toilets, dirty water splashed+litter everywhere on the ground, and used needles.
Maybe theres some magical unicorn ulturistic people that would haul ass to clean up the place out of kindness of their heart/for the good of community. Good for them, the next dozen people would trash it up again and undo all their hard work out of pure apathy.
Some people are great and upstanding members of society that go out of their way to improve things, most are stupid, lazy, self-interested animals who couldn’t care less about their actions inconveniencing others and making environments worse than when they enter.
Lots of jobs important to keeping places running and clean are shitty, hard work and usually in nasty environments. Getting a gold star on their upstanding citizen sheet isn’t enough incentive.
Now I can totally see a UBI system where people who do voulenteer for these kinds of things get paid more/ gets exclusive societal perks over someone who doesn’t. But now were back to where we started, people getting paid more to do work that very few wants to do or has the skills to do.
From reading your comments, I am developing a sense that you are unaware of living within a particular historic period characterized by particular attitudes, values, and customs.
In particular, you seem to be unaware that societies have existed, and some currently exist, under which the organization of labor is not through wage remuneration.
It might be helpful for you to learn about a variety of different kinds of social organization, in order to gain broader insight.
There’s a bit more to it than just being g nice and not seeing being hurt. It’s just as much self interest in making sure their able to work, and do their part in society/community or what ever group their part of and keep it running
All the nitpicking aside, this is the ‘somebody’s gotta scrub the toilets’ argument right?
The simplest answer to this I can think of is, who scrubs the toilets in your home? It’s you right?
Do you do it because you own the toilet? Not necessarily because people who live in rented accommodation still scrub the toilet. So why? It’s because you have an interest in not living in a place with a filthy toilet. Now suppose you actually had a local community, you’d have an interest in making sure nobody was living with a filthy toilet they couldn’t clean because then they might get sick and you don’t want that because you’re a nice person and you don’t like seeing your friends hurt. So you’d probably set up a communal rota, which is basically what people here in the UK already do because elder care on the NHS doesn’t exist in practice.
The reality is that most people are self-interested and not at all ulturistic about things. They’ll begrudgingly clean their own toilet for their own sanitary sake but that line of thinking doesn’t do so well with public places.
Go into a public bathroom at a truck station or anywhere else that doesn’t have a paid worker to clean up the mess and you’ll see just how much people cooperate to keep it clean. Spoilers: they dont, because almost nobody wants to clean up after themselves let alone others germ filled shit stains, clogged toilets, dirty water splashed+litter everywhere on the ground, and used needles.
Maybe theres some magical unicorn ulturistic people that would haul ass to clean up the place out of kindness of their heart/for the good of community. Good for them, the next dozen people would trash it up again and undo all their hard work out of pure apathy.
Some people are great and upstanding members of society that go out of their way to improve things, most are stupid, lazy, self-interested animals who couldn’t care less about their actions inconveniencing others and making environments worse than when they enter.
Lots of jobs important to keeping places running and clean are shitty, hard work and usually in nasty environments. Getting a gold star on their upstanding citizen sheet isn’t enough incentive.
Now I can totally see a UBI system where people who do voulenteer for these kinds of things get paid more/ gets exclusive societal perks over someone who doesn’t. But now were back to where we started, people getting paid more to do work that very few wants to do or has the skills to do.
From reading your comments, I am developing a sense that you are unaware of living within a particular historic period characterized by particular attitudes, values, and customs.
In particular, you seem to be unaware that societies have existed, and some currently exist, under which the organization of labor is not through wage remuneration.
It might be helpful for you to learn about a variety of different kinds of social organization, in order to gain broader insight.
There’s a bit more to it than just being g nice and not seeing being hurt. It’s just as much self interest in making sure their able to work, and do their part in society/community or what ever group their part of and keep it running
Sure but this was meant to be a simplistic explanation, so I simplified.