You will be no better than the people you’ll fight against. I’ve seen it happen on every pro-men subreddit, and if this place isn’t aggressively moderated to dispel hopelessness, negativity, and prejudice, it’ll just turn into hate.

Incel, mens-rights activist, red-pill, black-pill, MGTOW, etc. don’t let the haters join otherwise this community will end up just like the aforementioned.

Egalitarian from a male perspective is what we should be, not pro-male (I say male because of sex and gender).

Be excellent to each other.

  • a-man-from-earth@kbin.social
    11·
    1 year ago

    This is an over-generalisation of feminism.

    Says you. But you didn’t give any of the evidence asked for.

    Feminists regularly state that men as individuals are not well served by a patriarchal system. […] A lot of this is just the misunderstanding of “men” as a social group, and “men” as individuals. Critique of the social systems affecting a group cannot be simply applied to every individual within that group.

    So men in general are bad, but some individuals are okay? Yeah, that’s misandry. And that’s why we cannot work with most feminist activists. They are bigots.

    I’ve tried. I’ve honestly tried. When I was active on Reddit I tried to ally with a feminist or feminist-adjacent group that would not demonize men. I found a few individuals, but no community (/subreddit) that would actually embrace men as equals and oppose misandry.

    And that’s a reflection of what happens in politics. Feminist politicians, lobbyists, and activist groups often say they want equality, but their actions often show the opposite.

    In the welcome thread you favourited comments that consider feminism to have a “focus on female supremacy”

    It often does.

    and to be “genocidal”.

    I don’t agree with that. Just because I upvote a comment does not mean I agree with every phrase in it.

    That same comment thread deliberately misinterprets feminist distinction between “group” and “individual”

    How so? Doesn’t feminism habitually demonize men as a group? And isn’t demonizing people based on innate characteristics bigotry?

    To be very frank, you are not pro women’s advocacy if that is the sort of generalisation that you encourage.

    Nonsense. Don’t you understand the difference between a gender and an ideology? We are pro women, but oppose feminist ideology because of its misandry.

    (Yes, there are schools of feminism that are not, but they are fringe.)

    meaningful men’s advocacy is only going to gain actual traction by working with feminists towards egalitarianism.

    That sounds a bit like meaningful black advocacy is only going to gain actual traction by working with white supremacists towards egalitarianism.

    There is no working with bigots.

    (And yes, I’m aware there are many “passive” feminists who believe the propaganda that the movement is for equality. We welcome them to open their eyes and work with us.)

    But if there are feminists who are pro men and pro equality, we would love to work with them. The problem is that in practice they are very hard to find.

    • darq@kbin.social
      1·
      1 year ago

      Says you. But you didn’t give any of the evidence asked for.

      I responded your assertions with the same amount of evidence that you made them with. Which is none.

      I’m giving my opinion. You don’t have to take it. And I don’t have to spend any more effort than I feel like in responding to you.

      So men in general are bad, but some individuals are okay? Yeah, that’s misandry. And that’s why we cannot work with most feminist activists. They are bigots.

      This is literally just individualising systemic criticism again. The exact thing my comment was saying it is a misunderstanding to do.

      I’m being sincere when I say: You do not seem understand the words that feminists are saying.

      I really do need you to realise that. If that is how you interpret feminist critique of social systems, that “men in general are bad”, then you do not understand feminists arguments as they are intended. You are deadset against a strawman.

      Your attempts to engage with feminism are almost certainly going to be coloured by that misunderstanding. Because when a feminist says ABC, and you are seemingly determined to hear XYZ instead, and because of that you begin throwing around accusations, those interactions are going to become combative.

      I don’t agree with that. Just because I upvote a comment does not mean I agree with every phrase in it.

      Complete cop out. You are a moderator of this space. If you allow, and even show tacit support for such ridiculous tribalism, you cannot later be suprised when the community you foster embodies that.

      I’m not a man, but I used to be pretty sympathetic to the MensRights crowd. I am still sympathetic to men’s advocacy because I think men’s issues are important, both to men as individuals and to a healthy society. But those previous communities were misogynistic because they were more concerned with blaming feminism and women than building something healthy.

      That sounds a bit like meaningful black advocacy is only going to gain actual traction by working with white supremacists towards egalitarianism. There is no working with bigots.

      Right back at you. Your attempts to separate “women’s advocacy” from “feminism” just reads like you, as a man, want to determine the acceptable limits of women’s advocacy.

      • a-man-from-earth@kbin.social
        10·
        1 year ago

        I responded your assertions with the same amount of evidence that you made them with. Which is none.

        You need evidence for feminism being misandrist?

        I mean, I can give you that, as there is plenty to go around, starting from the 1848 Declaration of Sentiments painting men in general as tyrannical oppressors.

        Do you need us to make a list?

        This is literally just individualising systemic criticism again.

        No. There is a difference between criticizing a system and criticizing a gender. I’m all for criticizing traditional gender norms, but I’m vehemently opposed to demonizing men.

        Your attempts to separate “women’s advocacy” from “feminism” just reads like you, as a man, want to determine the acceptable limits of women’s advocacy.

        Just like you reject the misogyny in some corners of the men’s movement (as do I), I reject the misandry so prevalent in feminism.

        And exactly because misandry is so prevalent in feminism (and reflected in its theory), I call those who wish to advocate for women from an egalitarian perspective to distance themselves from it.

        • darq@kbin.social
          1·
          1 year ago

          No. There is a difference between criticizing a system and criticizing a gender. I’m all for criticizing traditional gender norms, but I’m vehemently opposed to demonizing men.

          There is a difference between criticism of social systems and criticism of individuals living within those systems.

          But you are hell-bent on misunderstanding and conflating the two. Deliberately so it seems.

          Just like you reject the misogyny in some corners of the men’s movement (as do I), I reject the misandry so prevalent in feminism.

          Just look at how you write this, for goodness sake.

          Misogyny is “in some corners” of the men’s movements, but misandry is “so prevalent” in feminism? As if misogyny isn’t rife is many men’s rights spaces, the misogyny is so prevalent it’s become a joke to the rest of the Internet.

          There is a guy in this magazine just straight up denying women’s historical suffering and suggesting that women don’t actually know mistreatment, or perhaps he’s suggesting worse, that they’re lying about it.

          The misogyny is already here.

          And exactly because misandry is so prevalent in feminism (and reflected in its theory), I call those who wish to advocate for women from an egalitarian perspective to distance themselves from it.

          Alright. Good luck with that. Lol.

          • a-man-from-earth@kbin.social
            7·
            1 year ago

            There is a difference between criticism of social systems and criticism of individuals living within those systems.

            That’s not what I said. I said: There is a difference between criticizing a system and criticizing a gender. As in, there is a difference between criticizing social phenomena (or groups of people choosing to behave in certain ways), and criticizing groups of people by innate characteristics.

            Methinks the deliberate misunderstanding is on your part.

            Misogyny is “in some corners” of the men’s movements, but misandry is “so prevalent” in feminism?

            Yes, that is my observation.

            As if misogyny isn’t rife is many men’s rights spaces, the misogyny is so prevalent it’s become a joke to the rest of the Internet.

            It’s not. That’s mostly smears from the feminist camp, especially based on a confusion of criticism of feminism with criticism of women.

            And what happens in men’s rights spaces is quite in opposition to the feminist camp, where misandry is embedded in their theory, even tho people usually defend it.

            There is a guy in this magazine just straight up denying women’s historical suffering and suggesting that women don’t actually know mistreatment, or perhaps he’s suggesting worse, that they’re lying about it.

            Then please report that comment / those comments. I’m human and the moderation tools here are rudimentary. It’s not easy for me to see everything, but misogyny is not welcome here.