We don’t know who will be top of the EPL, or the Italian League in 15 years time. We do know that Barcelona or Real Madrid will be top of the Spanish league and that Bayern will be top of the German league

I think that may have to do more with Real, Barca and Bayern both institutional pull (as the hegemons they are) and consistency. Barca been failing a bit lately but they’re not going to turn into another AC Milan overnight. The reason for Serie A being more uncertain now is because Juve dropping the level, not the rest catching up. On the contrary City clearly raising the bar for EPL (both Liverpool and Arsenal would have been champions with their points given any other past season) and translating into European performances too, where Italians successors to AC Milan and Juve have just been poor. Uncertainty does not necessarily mean overall competitiveness. That’s why I think this argument here is misleading. Bayern, Real and Barsa also appear among anyone’s list on the UCL contenders for the next 15 years. Heck I’d even pick them in my top 5 along with probably City and maybe Liverpool. That shows not only domestic consistency but European’s, which means clubs’ consistency as a whole. It’s not the league’s fault at all.

Agreed, although Ajax is no longer part of the conversation and you left Man United and possibly Inter from the list.

Yeah, well I even left Barca because we were talking about possible La Liga advantages and I chose Real being the clear leaders in that sense. But Barca’s 5 UCL makes them closer than anyone imo than Bayern or Liverpool. They’ve been the most succesful side this century so far apart from Real themselves.

I just wanted to put some perspective there. La Liga is not a walk in the park, nor a walk in the park as you stated helps you precisely. See PSG, Benfica, Ajax nowadays

I don’t know why you’re trying to defend the Spanish league so much. Real Madrid is a great team with a great rival in a relatively weak league.

I may be biased as a Cádiz fan but you’re just unfair here. Relatively to who? La Liga has been the best league from 2009 to 2018 probably. 2nd since then according to UEFA. So it’s a “relatively weak league” only compared to EPL. That’s not the definition of weak, nor a difference between Real Madrid and other European continental rivals the likes of Bayern, Dortmund, PSG, Juve, Ájax, Benfica, Nápoles, both Milan… who just happen to play on arguably weaker leagues.

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What’s your point? So would Man United, Liverpool, Bayern Munich and PSG. I didn’t even mention Man City and Chelsea.

If you say La Liga is weak, then I’ve got a claim for “RM being massive” everywhere. Because they’re THE largest club by most metrics. They’re just bigger than all clubs you mentioned. Hence this topic to start with.

This topic is about Real Madrid’s European rivals chances to catch them at UCL tally. Among their biggest traditional rivals figure AC Milan, Liverpool, Bayern or Ajax. Recent rivals including Juventus, Chelsea, City or PSG too.

So we’re talking about what differentiates Real from them. I’d say good management comes first. Some of these clubs have spent nearly as much, yet have not succeeded even a fraction. When Real spends, despite some notable exceptions to the rule (Hazard), they do it RIGHT. Ronaldo, Kroos, Modric, Vinicius, Valverde, Bellingham already have all proven that. Núñez at Liverpool, Messi and Neymar at PSG, not to talk about Juve or Chelsea… with many sounded big flops, they’re miles away as of today. Only side comparable among the big ones is City with a squad built around world’s best manager’s mentality and with a whole state funding behind. That comparison alone speaks volumes about Pérez success at managerial level. Not even Barca could capitalize from their recent successful era (talking about their 09-18 run, with 09-11 probably best club ever?) nearly as much. Last year UCL’s run even at their current transition period is the most direct example. No team manages that, not even City. They needed just the piece they lacked: a pure 9.

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Real Madrid have been in a similar position since the 1950’s. Real Madrid are closer to being a Bayern Munich than Man City is.

I agree success calls for success. That’s got to do more with both Real and Bayern historical success than City’s lack of capacities. We’re talking about current state of things though. La Liga is closer to the 3 horse race than the Bundesleague or even the Premier. You may seem to miss La Liga has been more contested in the last couple of years than the Premier. That’s an objective truth too. You seem to run from one perspective to the other conveniently. You can’t say EPL is better and more contested. The first was not true in the past decade and a half and the latest hasn’t been true recently. Man U is relevant historically but not as actual UCL contenders, truth be told. That would be Liverpool and more recently, Arsenal, even though the latest with Arteta have really achieved nothing just yet.

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That’s a pretty weak argument when you look at it subjectively. Spain two (or three) top teams are amazing, but they can afford to rest players to ensure their best players are in top form for their biggest games. A lot of teams in England don’t have that luxury.

Nor do most La Liga sides apart from the Big 2. Even them lose points when not at full, just look at Barca’s most recent domestic match.

Btw, Atlético won that 13/14 season (and were therefore at their prime) just when RM came to win the next 3 UCL. They also won it the year prior Real Madrid won their latest UCL. Wouldn’t say domestic competition harms their European performances that much, it actually seems to work the other way around.

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Bayern and PSG have a monopoly over their respective leagues. I feel this actually hinders them rather than helps them as

I don’t see how is that the case when you were attacking La Liga’s “duopoly” because of lack of competition even though, by definition, it’s a more contested scenario.

Overall Premier League teams are better than the Spanish league when taken as an average and that is why the league is harder.

See, that’s a better argument. Competition level throughout the league more than about title contenders. But here again, works when compared to EPL. Wouldn’t say La Liga’s bottom is worse than Serie A’s, Bundesleague or specially Ligue 1 though: check their ELOs

Sevilla or Villarreal success at EL, yet struggling at domestic level is an indication.

Take in mind if you take out Barca and Real from the equation, you’ve got to do the same with Bundesleague (Bayern and Dortmund) and so on, to compare apples to apples.

Lack of competition is relative, dude. They certainly have had more competition in the recent years than the likes of Bayern or PSG. Or Juventus in the past before they dropped their level. A duopoly already makes you focus in the domestic goal too the way these monopolistic clubs don’t have to face. There’s a minimum point threshold Barca forces you to make to win La Liga. And City has only have to face Liverpool 3 times and Arsenal once in the race for the lead, there’s not been any competition outside them. So even if the rival varies, that’s still a duopoly too, a two horse race. There’s an argument to include City among the easiest league winners too, as results show. The clásico race is more demanding because Barca is just a larger threat for Madrid’s interests domestically. So is Atletico than any other 3rd title contender in the Premier. Who is Atletico equivalent for the past City dominance? One could argue it’s Arsenal, but they’ve not won a single major competition with Arteta just yet. Atletico has already two leagues in the past 10 seasons.

Even though title race is not as easy as you may claim, it’s true they’ve almost got a guaranteed UCL spot among the top 4 which may be a little bit more difficult to get at EPL because of the Big 6, basically. But that’s not different here again than Bayern or PSG’s case. It’s more spread out among the top in La Liga than in these cases I’d say, just look at Real Sociedad or Athletic recent storming performances. Sum to that the recently successful too EL winners Sevilla and Villarreal (the solely exception for them both being this year of transition), and with the Big 3 you already have 7 sides there. One to drop from Europe every season, two if some extraordinary underdog runs like Girona’s happens. Not even counting fallen in disgrace big clubs like Valencia.

So they’ve consistently got to top 4 spots because of the Big 3 gap against the rest, that’s true. But it’s got to do more with RM’s own status than the rest of the league. RM would be massive at any other league too. That alone doesn’t explain Real’s consistency.