…yeah, I’m sure Trump will have your back…

  • Unaware7013@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    64
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    1 year ago

    Considering that literally the only other options would be objectively worse, and would give the openly fascistic party a better chance at winning, are they wrong tho?

    I fucking hate the stranglehold on power that the 2 party system gives to both parties, and how it allows them to hold our votes hostage. But at the same time I’m a pragmatist who understands how electoral politics works, and also someone who understands that while voting won’t get you to a utopia, not voting can absolutely help push the country farther and farther away (as we saw in 2016).

    I’m absolutely not going to be the guy that tries to guilt people into voting against the fascists even if it means holding their nose for a party they don’t like (which is where I’ve landed), but there really isn’t a much better option available that isn’t directly against peoples’ better interests. I’d love to hear where I’m wrong or overlooking something better, but I haven’t seen it yet.

    • lennybird@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      I agree. It’s a huge gambit that is unlikely to pay off.

      Why? Because despite valid concerns over Israeli aggression and Palestinian oppression, support for Israel is still high and for every Muslim you try to reach out in support you risk ostracizing the predominantly Democratic Jewish voters (which roughly doubles Muslim population) all the same. I’d hate to be the analyst for Biden on that, but it’s pretty cut-and-dry.

    • blargerer@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      1 year ago

      Right but… they don’t want Trump to be president. They want someone like Biden to be (or Biden) and for Biden to not support a brewing ‘Hot’ Genocide (It was already arguably one and I don’t know the proper terms here). It’s just that the only leverage they have is withdrawing support. It’s a game of chicken.

      • Unaware7013@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s just that the only leverage they have is withdrawing support. It’s a game of chicken.

        I don’t disagree with what you said, but this right here is the most correct. My only point was that their leverage amounts to holding a grenade and pulling the pin. Sure, they’ll hurt the Dems for not doing the right thing, but they’re still going to hurt themselves much worse.

        • Maeve@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          1 year ago

          Orrrrr all the ones who claim third parties can’t win could actually find a decent nominee and vote for them.

          I’ll take: things that will never happen for a thousand. We keep doing what works against us rather than try something that will.

          • Zorque@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            The problem with that is, because of the duopoly on federal power right now, third parties are neutered on the national level. Voting for them nationally is little more than a token gesture, and does more harm then good.

            It sucks, and I hate it, but its also the truth. State and local races benefit more from third party/independent votes, which is where attention should be more focused.

            I do sympathize with those disenfranchised by the lesser of two evils party. Its a difficult position to be in.

            • Maeve@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              11
              ·
              1 year ago

              It’s sad that you can’t imagine enough people getting over their “protect the abuser at all costs” to actually try.

              • Zorque@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                75 million people voted for Trump. More than that many people would need to try. Together.

                We’re still struggling to get unions at individual workplaces to be commonplace. I dont think my doubts are particularly unfounded.

                • Maeve@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Do you have the same feelings for those who suffer battered partner syndrome, with children? Why don’t you have the same amount of compassion for millions of us who want to get out of a bad relationship with abusive politicians?

                  • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Millions haven’t voted for a third party in a century, maybe longer. A third party winning and overtaking the democrats would take splitting the vote for at least a decade, maybe more, and therefore letting fascists have complete control for that duration.

                    This is not a logical way of gaining working class power, so please get off your high horse when democracy is literally at stake.

        • aidan@lemmy.worldM
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          No, because that would imply that I think there are multiple openly fascist parties and I’m asking for clarification on which one they’re talking about

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        As a bystander I’m unimpressed by your unwarranted aggressive stance in this response. Incredibly knee-jerk and lacking in ethos. You could’ve written the entire comment with the same opinions far more effectively.

      • Unaware7013@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Tell me you don’t understand electoral politics without telling me that you don’t understand electoral politics.