• Molecular0079@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      No reason why western countries also can’t subsidize EV car companies to remain competitive.

      Like…what are we supposed to do? Be content with ridiculously priced EVs and be willing to pay a small fortune for them? Fuck off with that noise.

      Western corporations have had no problems fucking over the average consumer for decades or laying off thousands of employees at the first sign of trouble. Let them adapt or die I say. Competition is always good. Western corporations have the smarts and the resources to compete, they just need to be forced to.

      • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Controversial take: the problem isn’t car prices. They haven’t increased that much when compared to inflation, and you’re getting far more and far better cars for your money when adjusted for inflation.

        The problem is wages haven’t risen and housing prices have risen too much, meaning people have less to spend on a car.

        E: I googled. In the US the cost of a median house was 18k in 1953. An average car cost 3.5k.

        Now, the median house costs 400k.

        400k/18k x 3.5k = If car prices had risen as much as house prices, the median car would cost 77k.

        • MonkderZweite@feddit.ch
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          11 months ago

          and you’re getting far more and far better cars for your money when adjusted for inflation.

          Better at getting me from A to B?

          • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Yes… cars now are faster, safer, and more efficient than they were in the 50s.

            Even if you discount all the “features” they’ve added the bare necessities of a car are tons better than mid-20th century cars or even late 20th century cars

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Or just let those who can’t compete die, which is totally fine.

        I don’t have any loyalty to some specific car brand.

      • CosmoNova@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        That‘s a terrible idea. Just because China throws irresponsible amounts of cash at cars doesn‘t mean we have to do the same mistake. We can simply say it‘s not OK to sell products under manufacturing costs to gain market share and that‘s that. Let‘s not inflate the already oversized car market even more.

        • silentknyght@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          I agree it’s a bad first step. I’d keep trying idea on the table, but I’d start by working with the European car manufacturers to create huge tariffs on those cars. Make it impossible for them to be sold at those prices in Western markets

        • eltrain123@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          They can simply say they don’t subsidize their manufacturing and operate profitably at those prices.

          Just saying something doesn’t make it work unless there are legal things that back up the position. And in foreign trade, that means tariffs… which economists have been screaming about (for decades) having negative ramifications that ripple through the economy.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Selling at a loss to enter a market or gain market share is a time honored tradition at this point.

      • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        It is, but as the article mentions some manufacturers are making a loss of 35k per car.

        If those cars are then sold for 5k less than the US/EU/Japanese equivalent, despite lower wages and environmental standards, you have to ask yourself questions.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Yes you just described the business model. Everyone from Walmart to Amazon to Uber uses it. They take a loss in the short term, relying on new investor money or other products.

          • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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            11 months ago

            Or they could be building economies ot scale? You can’t drive down costs making thousands, you need to make millions.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              That’s possible too. It’s not like the US doesn’t give businesses loans and grants for upscaling.

    • CosmoNova@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Yep. They‘re doing exactly what we usually call hostile underbidding to heavily inflate prices later when they‘re a top dog. A practice that is not quite legal in most parts of the west. And whoever wants to know when things still don‘t work out for the car maker because subsidies dry up: Search for Chinese manufacturer ‚Weltmeister‘. That will make you think thrice about ever coming near a Chinese EV.

      • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        It’s also called dumping:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

        The kind of thing usually results in a trade war, sanctions and tariffs.

        The problem in Europe, is that our manufacturers are so reliant on Chinese parts and manufacturing, that they’ve asked our government NOT to intervene. China has them by the nuts, because they’ve outsourced too much. IRC they can’t even make batteries without using Chinese parts.