• dharwin@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    The US is sleepwalking into fascism. Well, don’t say we didn’t warn you.

    • kool_newt@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      Half of us are being dragged, the other half is pulling us. It’s illegal for the ones being dragged to protect themselves from the ones pulling us as we live in a state.

      Then there’s the leftist non-voters who seem to think that if you don’t choose Republican or Democrat we default to peaceful communism.

      • TechyDad@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I’d say it’s more like 40% of us are being dragged by 25% of us while 35% watch on, refusing to participate either way despite the fact that they’ll be dragged in next.

      • AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        The Gen Z voters fucking terrify me. They are turning against even Bernie Sanders, because of the fact that our government supports Israel. Like, they are willing to blow up everything for Palestine. Don’t get me wrong, I for damn sure support the Palestinian people and detest the genocide being perpetrated by Israel, but am I willing to allow my own country to fall to fascism because of their support for Israel? No! I won’t because allowing this country to fall to fascism is only going to let Israel continue their genocide, but under Trump our troops will join the fray and bomb the shit out of Gaza.

        • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Yeah, as much as I make fun of the alt-right and their dumb culture war bullshit, some of the Gen Z on the left end of the spectrum are so willing to cast out all allies just because they detect one iota of dissent from a rapidly moving set of expectations, esp. when it comes to things like trans.

          And it’s fracking dangerous. I look at what happened to the discussion forums on Boing Boing as an example of this. The assumption is that anyone not in the upper echelon of the oppression olympics intersectional game has to shut up and just listen to any opinion of someone in a certain set of groups, just because. Meaning, if you are white or male or both and cishet or xtian, then your opinion is worthless, unless you just repeat verbatim what one of the blessed members says. And even then, you might be accused of appropriating their arguments or being a white savior or whatever.

          If they think that is any semblance of normal, or the way to fight fascism, build coalitions, or win elections, they are completely deluding themselves. If it was only places like Boing Boing it might be one thing. Unfortunately, that is just a very public example of it…

          Oh, and same sentiments on the Gaza thing. What Israel is doing there is beyond belief in horribleness, but checking out or voting against Biden would make it far worse. What people that say “voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil” fail to see is that the alternative is getting even MORE evil than otherwise…

    • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      Oh, the fascists are waking wide-eyed awake straight into it. And they’re dragging the rest of us with them.

    • Sanctus@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I’m wide awake, my heart is pounding, and my vocal chords are shredded from the screaming. Not all of us are asleep. 1/3rd of the country actually wants this.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        1/3rd of the country actually wants this.

        Not-so-fun fact: in 1930s Germany, the highest the Nazi Party ever performed in a national vote was 37%.

    • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      It’s not sleepwalking if we all know that it’s happening and are screaming about it, but nobody in power is doing anything to stop it.

      • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        Fact is, like any normal distribution, 2/3 if American voters are uneducated centrists that dont understand how their system of government works or what the meaning of scary political words mean. To them, the world is just fine, but that Biden feller made me sleepy so fuck him.

        Most Americans have no idea what is waiting for them on January 21st 2025.

    • gradyp@awful.systems
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      10 months ago

      sick of this talking point, we’re wide awake and the warning signs are all there.

        • gradyp@awful.systems
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          10 months ago

          What worries me is that we keep getting reassured that someday, at least one of these 91 charges will stick and it will take care of everything. But I see absolutely zero reason to believe that there will be any consequences whatsoever. The delay tactics have thus far been working and his popularity just grows and grows.

          We are wide awake and still letting it happen; and we see it happen in other countries the world over. My only conclusion is that this is what people want.

          • unconsciousvoidling@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            I disappointingly keep finding out people at work support him and now I just assume no matter how decent someone might appear… they probably deep down are shit. I have to awkwardly avoid conversations about their dumb world views whenever politics come up. It’s concerning the number of every day people that want this shit.

  • WashedOver@lemmy.ca
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    10 months ago

    I guess this means the 2nd amendment crowd finally gets their opportunity to use their stockpiled guns against the government in a case like this? /s

    • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Yes, exactly right. You do not need the /s at all because that is the purpose of 2A.

      • fiah@discuss.tchncs.de
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        10 months ago

        that doesn’t work though when at least half of the 2nd amendment supporters voted for fascism. What are they going to do, take up arms against the party they voted into power themselves?

        • CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          This exactly. These fascists will point their guns squarely at liberals and Democrats in the name of their country.

          Remember when Trump said he could shoot a person in Times Square and get away with it?

          His supporters loved him for that because they want to do this too. They want to get away with murdering people.

          Make no mistake: we will have another coup if Trump is “elected”. The question is will there be enough people to stand up and rise against it.

          I hate to say it but I’m not optimistic on that.

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I am still curious how it works in their mind. They see troops deployed and they what exactly, random acts of terrorism? Like you look at the places that led successful guerilla campaigns against real militaries and they are all in places where real poverty is rampant. Not talking about you live in a trailer and work at Target. More like you grow opium in some valley in Afghanistan or rice in Vietnam. Remember the Bundy Ranch guys ordering takeout?

          I can’t see any gun owner I know just deciding to go live in the woods, willing to survive on what food they can salvage while getting their own kids to plant landmines.

    • TunaCowboy@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Not /s, you’re exactly right, you should move to the left and be prepared as well.

      There’s a lot of people sounding the alarm, but it seems liberals still don’t believe what conservatives have been straight up telling them for years.

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        It’s weird that they won’t come out and say, “My plan is to lie down and take it. But they better ask nicely if they want me on that train!”

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I plan to stick it out. My wife has dual citizenship and we are in the process of getting our kids the same. If it really comes down to it they can flee abroad. If we are at the point where the US is not letting people leave there is no point in prepping for anything.

    • shalafi@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Yep! And no, we won’t be fighting tanks and drones. As with all politics, the fight will be local. We’ll be fighting the local Committee for Public Safety, Brown Shirts, etc.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        If you think the Brown Shirts won’t magically get armored vehicles and air support then you didn’t pay attention to the part where the Brown Shirts turned into the SS and Gestapo.

    • kool_newt@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      Those in charge in the government are not dumb, they’ve learned over 100+ years how to propagandize those that want guns to not see them as the enemy. It’s not a coincidence that the gun nuts are courted by the right.

  • just_change_it@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Ah yes, the nazi wants to build concentration camps to murder the brown people. This is in line with his platform.

    The irony with this is that the vulnerable people crossing the border would otherwise pick up low wage manufacturing and menial labor jobs that create wealth for the nation and farmers, but it seems that republicans are banking on poor white babies to grow up and accept those jobs in 14 years and be good republican voters. I don’t see the pendulum swinging so hard to the right that the strategy would ever work.

    • ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Ah yes, the nazi wants to build concentration camps to murder the brown people anyone who disagrees with him, anyone he sees as a threat, anyone who is in his way, anyone who can be classed as an outsider or a misfit to portray as an enemy so as to keep insiders in line, anyone who does not perfectly toe the line of submission to the new state, anyone who exhibits “subversive” thoughts, behaviors or statements, anyone who is critical of him, any one who has ever called him a spraytan antichrist, mango Mussolini, or Vladimir Putin’s love interest . . .

      FTFY

      P.S. I am so completely screwed, lol

    • TurtleJoe@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The only voter strategy they care about is rigging districts until they’re guaranteed power. Hungary is their model, if you want to look into how Orban has essentially made himself dictator.

  • Dkarma@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Never forget that George Bush closed the southern border for 48 hours. That’s as long as it lasted. Then big business farms and other companies who desperately rely on immigrant labor got in some people’s ear.

    If Trump does this it would destroy the economy.

    • teamevil@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Wouldn’t be his first time absolutely destroying a valuable money making system with his stupid tiny hands. Everything he touches turns to garbage.

    • Jaysyn@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      If Trump does this it would destroy the economy.

      He’s literally already done it once. The Ag sector, especially family farms, still haven’t recovered from his blatant mismanagement & immigration screwups.

    • squiblet@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      DeSantis apparently didn’t understand that wealthy republicans prefer to have illegal immigrants working for them and the anti-immigrant thing is just pandering and marginalization. When he tried to enforce labor laws in Florida by the book it was similarly unpopular.

    • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The thing I am most concerned about is a nationwide abortion ban. We have already seen how badly the legislation is crafted on the state level and no country has attempted to do it on national level the same way.

      Miscarriages are common, ectopic pregnancies are common, medication used for abortion has other medical uses. We could legit face a situation where getting pregnant gives you fairly high chance of dying or being incarcerated. What happens next? I know if I was a woman I would definitely get myself sterilized.

  • lennybird@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I’m still finding it extremely unlikely he’s electable. Not saying we shouldn’t take it seriously, though.

    Over the years many conservative anti-vaxxers have died from covid, boomers are dying off, and anyone who wasn’t already a trumper isn’t exactly lining up.

    Most economic indicators are trending very well; meanwhile the abortion topic continues to backfire tremendously.

    2022 proved polls don’t sufficiently capture millennial and zoomers.

    • buddhabound@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I’m GenX, and I wouldn’t answer a poll if you paid me. I will vote, and I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life. If there’s no Dem candidate on the ballot for a specific office, I leave it blank so they can see how many votes they’re not getting when they don’t run a candidate.

      • Monument@lemmy.sdf.org
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        10 months ago

        My plan for the next year is to answer every opinion poll.

        I’m going to tell every pollster who will listen I’m not voting because I won’t vote for republicans, and Democrats haven’t done anything to deserve my vote - because they had 60 years to make abortion access federal law, they have had numerous opportunities to unwind Medicare Part D, and in 2021 they should have made the ACA better, overturned Citizens United, fixed the Voter Rights Act, and worked to improve turnout by mandating federal voting holidays (amongst other things), but they didn’t, and instead their whole modern platform is that they will slow walk the U.S. into corporate and theocratic ownership slower than the Republicans.

        And then I’m going to vote anyway, because I’m not a child. But I won’t be telling pollsters that. The Democratic Party needs to fear what their milquetoast policies have wrought.

        • lennybird@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          It’s not, but evidently polling isn’t capturing these groups effectively. Again, as 2020 and 2022 proved.

        • buddhabound@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I don’t answer polls as a GenX, but I sure as hell vote in every election. I will never vote for a Republican. Polls won’t capture voters like me, and voters like me are not just millennials and zoomers.

          • DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de
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            10 months ago

            Polling isn’t as simple as adding up responses and reporting the percentages.

            They use complex methodologies to account for inaccuracies exactly like your good self.

            That’s not to say that polls are necessarily accurate - clearly they aren’t, but to say “polls won’t capture voters like me” is incorrect.

    • just_change_it@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Over the years many conservative anti-vaxxers have died from covid,

      I disagree with this assessment affecting voting in any way. Mortality rates are very low outside of very vulnerable and elderly population that totals much less than 2%. Even if you’re left only half way there mentally after a severe infection your vote is still a vote, and the majority republican areas are not affected by this in any way.

      Even if 20% of republicans died from a disease in most of the red states voting wouldn’t change much. Between gerrymandering, propaganda news and winner takes all electoral college configuration even if republicans lose the popular vote they will still keep basically all of their electoral college votes.

      Most economic indicators are trending very well; meanwhile the abortion topic continues to backfire tremendously. I don’t know a single person who doesn’t feel like we’re in a recession and that the economy is in the toilet. The smart ones understand some of the nuance but the republican party will just blame it all on Biden.

      The abortion topic still gets religious votes, and votes for those who want a poverty stricken lower class full of cheap labor workers. They won’t bend on cheap POC immigrant labor, they only want more white labor. I don’t think voting for abortion will beat out voting for what the church says and what all the peer pressure for voting red says. If pro-abortion won votes in red states we would have seen many more democrat and independent wins than we’ve seen in the house and senate. Local legislature seems to not be greatly affected by this either.

      The fact that polls put him close to a majority means it’s a major threat. The problem is that the democrat majority unfortunately is clustered in small areas where even if they win a popular vote in a district of a red state are unlikely to win the overall vote for all districts.

      Finally, Biden as a candidate is practically worthless. Trump would lose hard to Obama, but he can never be president again. Why anyone worth electing didn’t run for 2020 is beyond me but here we are.

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        So I think you raise some good points but bear in mind my overarching premise in my comment: Nothing improves conditions that Republicans didn’t already have in prior elections. Now, there is if anything diminishing returns across all vectors which tend to benefit the GOP. That being said:

        Regarding COVID, I’m not referring too much these days but of the early post-vaccine era where last I tried to best calculate we saw a ratio of about 4 or 5 conservatives dying for every Democrat. Yes, it doesn’t particularly impact an amount on a state-by-state basis, but the key point is: Did this help Republicans? Absolutely not; it has only hindered them. Does this matter in red states? Of course not. But in purple states and certain districts it could mean the difference of turning red or blue. We of course saw outcomes decided by literally a handful of votes. Considering this elderly Republican population most at risk is also a group that is most likely to turn out to vote for Republicans, then that hinders their most loyal base.

        Yeah, right-wing rhetoric is heavily pushing an alternate reality that the economy is going to shit and everything is bad. Yeah it may stick to some people, but the reality is these words are largely hollow. Whether the economy is good or bad, it’s true that there will be people who just find a reason to blame Biden because he’s a Democrat. You can’t stop that but you don’t have to; for they were always going to vote Trump anyway. The key point is that these arguments – permitted people like us raise our voice at dinner-tables and social media – can be quickly dismissed because the data that Republicans normally tout negatively are pretty positive.

        Look at what overturning Roe said. Even in an interview with a GOP Strategist I saw on PBS – they said the Republicans had no idea that overturning Roe be this unpopular even amongst part of their own base. FWIW my mother-in-law is a lifelong Republican who even voted for Trump and because of this reversal of Roe and how protective she is of her kids, she is now vehemently anti-Republican. Basically, it took away the choice of her daughters and now she’s pissed. Meanwhile it has been a major rallying cry for Democrats – and 2022 again proved that. Religious voters will likely continue voting Republican, but that’s largely a constant. If anything, they will feel less compelled to vote as they may feel their duty is done and they may get careless.

        Don’t get me wrong: I think polls should be some marker for concern and we should always assume the worst and hope for the best. However, and I say this again because literally nobody has remotely countered this point: The polls were deeply wrong for 2020 and especially 2022. One key facet of this was younger generations not sufficiently represented in polling.

        I also agree that Biden isn’t that great of a candidate. He’s just – dare I say – the “lesser of two evils.” Both candidates are old and largely useless; the only difference is that Biden isn’t corrupt and his cabinet is full of competent experts. I’ll vote for him, but you’re right that he does not remotely inspire. If Republicans nominated anyone younger, Democrats would guaranteed be fucked.

    • PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The problem is that’s only half the battle. What do you do when his legions of supporters decide they don’t like losing and take it out on the rest of the country?

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Let them string themselves out. They will lose. It will backfire as did January 6th.

    • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 months ago

      He (probably will be) the executive branch of the government. Unless his orders illegally suspend constitutional rights, the military must follow their CICs orders.

      Edit: for all of the downvoters, what about Trump’s plan to deploy troops on American soil is illegal?

      • DrPop@lemmy.one
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        10 months ago

        Not necessarily, the American military operates on chain of command. The worry is the current blocking of military appointments over bullshit. If they can steal long enough trump can install people who will follow his orders. Otherwise you can deny an unlawful order. Trump can only give orders to those ranked immediately below him.

        • Vqhm@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I refused an unlawful order once.

          It helped that everyone enlisted immediately agreed, but it escalated up the chain of command very quickly after we asked for a written order until it was agreed that it was a miscommunication and never happened.

          To be fair they could order you to do a lot and just hope you do the implied, even verbally said, but unwritten thing. But when I was in we had clear training about what was and wasn’t unlawful to prevent abuse. If we had done it and had no proof we were really 100% officially ordered then it could have been pinned on us. Which is why my first response was, is that an order? Followed with citing the written order that said we could not do that thing and asking for a written order to do the thing. Just following orders works both ways.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            For the uninitiated, asking for your verbal orders to be written out or asking for another soldier to be present in the military is a giant red flag. You can’t just say no in most cases. But the sub text is the experienced enlisted soldier knows it’s going to go horribly wrong. It’s generally the last warning an officer gets if they’re doing truly stupid things.

        • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          10 months ago

          Okay, so hypothetical situation, Trump makes an illegal order to General so-and-so. General refuses to comply. Trump has that General removed and replaced with a sycophant. In this actual case, he’s saying he’ll deploy troops on the ground on American soil, which I don’t believe is an illegal order.

          • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Believe Hayes made it illegal. There a few exclusions though, if I remember correct, an insurrection was one of the exclusions. I imagine Desantis knew this when he stated he would put troops on the other side of the border in Mexico, not realizing that would clearly look/be an invasion of Mexico. Or realizing and being dumb enough to think that was a smart move.

      • hansl@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        There are precedent for not following illegal orders. The Nuremberg trials made that point very clear.

        • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          10 months ago

          The Nuremberg trials were only allowed to happen because of how badly the Nazis were beaten at the end of WW2. They also didn’t possess nuclear weapons. If the Americans were about to critically lose a war like the Nazis did, to the point where they would be standing trial for warcrimes a la the Nuremberg Trials, they would probably detonate their arsenal.

          Also, is it illegal to deploy troops on your own soil? I wasn’t aware of that rule.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Fun fact, deploying troops inside the US is very restricted without an act of Congress to create an exception to the Posse Comitatus Act. Unless he tries to invoke the insurrection act. But at that point he would be asking the military to suspend civil law and order in an area. And that’s absolutely something that requires the military to consent to doing.

  • Optional@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    If that demented orange rapist thinks so much as misfires a neuron in that direction, his retirement will arrive immediately. They think we’re fucking around?! MARK IT ZERO.

    it is SUCH bullshit that our useless, pathetic, so-called “journalists” just watch this shit go by and pretend it’s just something that happens. They literally can not call him an anti-American coup-plotting traitor and a fascist.

    Fortunately, we don’ need no steenking corporate news.

  • TheLurker@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    This shit will continue to happen until Americans accept that democracy comes with at least a basic level of responsibility. That being mandatory voting.

  • Nougat@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    If you don’t think a Trump presidency would result in an invasion of Poland Mexico, you might want to pick up a history book.

  • Snapz@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Everything else aside for a moment, trump sure it’s an incapable little bitch that is really just a mouth piece for stephan miller. trump is so weak, stupid and powerless even his hate and fascist tendencies have to be directed by another idiot. Little-handed clown boy.