It turns out that more technology in cars isn’t necessarily something customers want, and it’s not really improving their driving experience. We know my thoughts on the matter, but I’ll do my best to stay impartial on this latest survey from JD Power that shows most customers don’t appreciate technology in cars unless they can see a clear benefit to them.
JD Power’s 2024 U.S. Tech Experience Index Study evaluated over 81,000 drivers’ experience with “advanced vehicle technologies” in 2024 model year vehicles after 90 days of ownership, It turned out to be a pretty mixed bag when it came to what people liked using. There are a number of tech features that customers like using because they feels that it answers their needs, but at the same time there is a whole lot that don’t get used very often or are continually annoying, according to the survey.
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I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
But the HVAC stuff needs to be buttons I can access/control without looking or very minimal looking.
I don’t want/need my car to have a SIM card, or connect to wifi, and report what I’m doing. If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
Edit: Oh, and I’m sure as hell not paying some subscription fee on top of the price of the car.
Good news, lawmakers in the US finally started looking at this issue.
Bad news: probably will take years for change
There are numerous headlines like:
118th Congress on track to become one of the least productive in US history
So good luck with that.
The company I work at is tangentially related to car company data collection. And this week, all employees received an email that we were legally required to save all records newer than 2005 related to a specific car company’s onboard data collection service.
So it does seem like the investigation has already got a subpoena or smth.
General Motors
There’s activity at the state level too in multiple states. I heard something about California, then not a lot. Bunch of articles about Texas.
Spoiler from the future: it’s legal, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
I love my subaru outback. It’s a great car. It does all the car things exceptionally well. It holds a lot of stuff. Snow, mud, fuck you it’s all pavement to me baybeee.
I fucking hate my Outback’s climate control, entertainment, map, and information screen. I understand newer models have improved slightly. It’s still awful. The only good thing about that fucking screen is that I can turn everything on from my phone. Literally every other function is awful to try to access and use while you’re driving.
Got a '24 outback late last year. For the most part I love it-it’s comfortable, holds my giant dogs and it’s way better to drive in bad weather than my previous car.
I’d read reports on subaru forums that infotainment was bad, so my expectations were low. But even basic stuff isn’t functional. It has gotten less responsive over the months (reminder: we’ve had it just barely a year). The screen has several seconds of lag with every touch, and sometimes controls just don’t work at all. I don’t like that we have to use it for temperature control, and android auto integration is clunky (though that may not be Subaru’s fault).
Add that to the horrifying data collection practices and it makes me question ever getting a Subaru again.
Is it possible to get some kind of firmware update that you may not have received?
kagis
This Reddit thread makes it sound like you need to manually do it or the dealer will do it as part of the regular maintenance. Not sure if this is specific to that model year.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Subaru_Outback/comments/18cjt00/software_update_december_2023/
Reminds me I need to update mine!! Did you have to take this in to the dealer to get it updated or did you do it yourself?
Dealer did that
What does the dealer charge?
I am not sure. It was part of my regular maintenance.
And
Does this help the PAINFULLY slow response in the screen?
Yes, it does! The lags are very short now, if there are any at all.
The people there are also complaining about the touchscreen instead of physical controls.
Hey good catch! I’ll try to ring my dealership to see if I can get that checked out during my next oil change visit.
Thanks
I just bought a forester a few months ago, and my 2 stipulations on the cars I was looking at were all-wheel drive because I live in snow country, and a car no newer than 2018 (IIRC) because that was the year car companies largely switched from manual controls to a 16-inch screen with everything, including climate control, accessed from an app.
When I was talking to the guy at the dealership I bought it from and mentioned how much I disliked the new screens, he outright said, “Yeah, a lot of people don’t like them.”
Similar complaint here. We were ready to replace our 2011 outback and decided it would make sense to get something at least a bit more modern. Loved our outback, and honestly would have bought another if it weren’t for that damn screen.
After getting a gander at that thing, we seemingly confused (or probably just disappointed) our salesman by insisting we wanted the most simple, stripped-down style console they had to offer. Apparently we’re not the most common customers, but i know I’m kinda weird so fair enough. After he went back inside to find out which models they had on the lot that might fit that description, the only one that had a “simple” console was the base model Forester. It was just not enough to transition over from our comfy 6-cyl beast that just had a 6-cd changer with a 1-inch-tall screen and an aux jack, but everything was operated by buttons. Even the rear view mirror had a clever backup camera integrated into it. Makes more sense that way, imo. It was everything we needed and only a smidge more.
I really wish we could have just bought a newer model of the exact same car feature-wise… That outback was a great car 🙂
As of 2022, Toyota still put physical buttons on their HVAC system and audio system.
I know because, against my advice, my wife bought a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid in 2022. I can’t tell her how to spend her money, but at least the car she got didn’t have some of this other bullshit.
Hey, at least she picked one of the most reliable cars on the market.
It’s a good car. I just wish she hadn’t decided to buy one in 2022. It’s bad enough to buy a new car now, it was worse then.
I have a 2008 tundra a coworker just bought a new one so I asked for a ride. It was nice to see under the enormous center display, the HVAC controls!
Out of curiosity, why didn’t you want her to buy that specific vehicle?
I didn’t think she should have bought any car. Her old car worked. It wasn’t in the best shape in the world, but it was fine. And 2022 was a terrible year for buying a car.
Oh, the COVID-19 shortages? Yeah, that’s a good point.
When carplay works, it’s great. But mine constantly has issues connecting to phones. Both my wife’s iPhone, and my Android. Both are flagships that are a couple years old, so still very current and sufficient specs.
Meanwhile, my old aftermarket Bluetooth radio connects every time with no issue.
I do like the convenience of GPS and audio on the car tablet when it works. But honestly, it’s a distraction when it’s being fussy.
Exactly my experience.
Phone dash mount all the way!
I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
This reminds me of my 2016 Honda Civic. It had just the right amount of tech.
But the HVAC stuff needs to be buttons I can access/control without looking or very minimal looking.
100% this. I shouldn’t have to click through 2 menus on a touchscreen to change a basic environmental control. Give me a damn knob, so if I want to change something I can reach my hand over and turn 2 clicks without taking my eyes off the road.
I have a 2023 Mazda CX-5 and it has the perfect amount of tech for me. The headunit isn’t touch screen, but you get used to the control knob after about a day and eventually it just feels second-nature. Also, all of the hvac controls are physical knobs and buttons, which is amazing.
I stopped using Android Auto on my infotainment system. I thought it was just me but when I’m using navigation (Google maps or wyze), the second I lose service for any reason, it completely exits out and cancels my navigation. I found that if I use it in my phone, it doesn’t have that issue.
2020 Subaru Forester, but friends with other cars (VW, Honda) mentioned the same issue. Not sure if this has been fixes in recent Android Auto updates or in newer cars, but I’m not going to chance it anymore.
I’ve only experienced real issues when out of network coverage for a long time.
I make sure I download the areas I’ll visit especially if the network coverage is spotty.
My Ford sync 3 amd my old Tundra with a Kenwood AA radio bot work fine out of service as long as I have the maps downloaded
If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
I mean, that’s kind of what they’re doing in that having another revenue stream will reduce the car price relative to what would have been the case if they couldn’t do so.
If some people want to make that trade, I think that they should have the option to do so.
I don’t personally want to make that trade myself, though.
I disagree, most of these subscriptions options are all built in and “enabled” if bought. There ain’t no car manufacturers looking to reduce their car prices for us. It’s profit above everything
Peak technology enjoyment in a car includes
- multiple zone ac
- heated/ventilated seats
- real buttons and not FUCKING CAPACITIVE TOUCH
- android auto/apple car play
There’s some other minor tech that’s fairly nice that I haven’t seen in cheaper cars. Lights under the door to light up the ground on dark nights for when you’re getting out. Just solid utilitarian tech right there.
I’d rather just have a standard size bank up front, like, 3DIN, and choose my own “car computer”. Have security locking support, guarantee certain power supply, impact, and temperature conditions. And then open up the “car console” market.
And let me be able to upgrade it five or ten years down the road.
If they want to provide a standard first-party center panel offering, fine. But computers and phones have a shorter life than do cars, and I don’t want to be locked into ancient or badly-chosen controls and computers. This “car is a big cell phone” thing is just godawful from a consumer standpoint.
That would be amazing. I miss the days of swapping my head for one I want. Blaupunkt MiniDisc here we go!
I’ve been driving spoiled with Lane Keep Assist. I’d like to continue to keep that as a thing in all cars.
Also, I used a Ford Escape as a rental this weekend, and holy shit I hate having to wait for the startup animation to complete so I can finally mess with the A/C and have it going on full blast after sitting in the hot sun all day. My Santa Cruz has actual buttons for all the climate control stuff and I had no idea I’d miss it so much until now.
Also, adaptive cruise control
I’m fine with adaptive cruise, however, I would also like to be able to turn it off quickly and easily if the situation calls for it.
Tapping the brakes has immediately turned off cruise control in every vehicle I’ve ever driven.
I was referring specifically to the adaptive part, and going back to dumb cruise. I wasn’t clear, my apologies.
Can you explain a scenario where that would be necessary? Given that adaptive cruise slows you down below your target speed to follow traffic all I can see that doing is either nothing on an open road, or accelerating you into the vehicle in front of you.
Isn’t it just a press of a button to turn it off?
I replied to another comment on this as well. I wasn’t very clear with what I meant, my apologies. I was referring to turning the adaptive part off, and going back to just regular old cruise control.
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Lane keep assist is annoying AF when you live in a place where you’re required by law to cross the double yellow when going around bicycles. You get in a steering wheel fight with the car until you find the menu to temporarily disable it. After next stop-start cycle mid-errand, it’s on again by default thanks to US law.
I mean just using your turn signal turns it off in most cars…
Maybe do that?
I have to say I prefer launching climate control from my phone before I ever get in the car. And also I’d rather have the cabin try to keep a temperature automatically instead of forcing me to dick with the temp of the blowing air.
After having used both Android Auto and Apple Car Play.
I really prefer having a good phone mount, that puts my phone in a glance-able place near the wheel.
That, and quality Bluetooth Audio.- rear camera.
Nobody is mentioning heads-up displays? That’s peak tech. The info is right there without having to move your eyes off the road.
How about the unnecessary tech that just shouldn’t be allowed.
- Doors that are not primarily manual to open or unlock.
- Touchscreen of any type. I’m okay with capacitive touch buttons but they should be in a fixed location and physically distinguishable from other surfaces.
- Electronic e-brake
- Replacement of any of the main driving functions with anything that is not physical and tactile (turn signals, windshield wipers, headlights)
At least in the US I feel like technology has leapfrogged regulation.
Touchscreen of any type
I think a touchscreen is fine as long as real buttons exist for things a driver might want to manipulate while driving. My Outlander has a fairly large touchscreen that offers media and navigation control, but everything else (climate, drive modes, cruise control/drive assists, windows, locks, etc) is real buttons and dials, and there are also an extra set of basic media controls on physical buttons as well (volume, next/prev track, tuning).
I’m quite happy with that. And the passenger still gets all the touchscreen bells and whistles if they want to explore the map or set up playlists or whatever.
Electronic doors can just fuck right off… Just another thing to break… I’d even go so far to say motorized windows these are great until the motor dies and you can’t shut the window.
Based on this MKBHD/Auto Zone video the way to get real buttons and sensible features is to buy a minivan.
I’d say that that kind of imposes a size restriction, but honestly, the crossovers that everyone seems to buy are about the same size as those these days anyway.
Can’t say that I would buy a minivan, because I hate them.
But my car (Hyundai Azera) has all physical AC buttons and it’s great. But it shows the temp on the touchscreen which is unfortunately kinda fundamental to this car from what I’ve found.
One of the reasons I mentioned android auto, I just have a AAwireless adapter right now, had a Motorola M1 which died. But that is basically all I need other than a charger which I have a 100w type c for that.
Sorry kinda rambled for a bit
Comfortable seats
A suspension that is comfortable over bumps, but not floaty or bouncy and slightly firm under compression.
- lane assist
- adaptive cruise
My current ride is peak technology imho:
- Crank windows
- Cold, manually adjustable seats
- 5 speed transmission
- Knobs and levers, minimal buttons
- MSRP under $10k–
give me buttons and dials, not touch screens and ai. I want to drive, not check social media. I’ll be keeping my 2009 until the engine locks up.
Yep. I’m hoping my current car holds out until this 'smartphone on wheels" trend reverses.
‘smartphone on wheels’*
*Apple CarPlay and Android Auto not supported.
Honestly that’s all I want out of the center screen.
I like my 2018 Outbacks layout. Physical controls for AC, knob for volume, and a reasonable touch screen. The gauge cluster has a small screen in the center that shows me some basic info I’d like to see like tire pressure, MPG, etc.
I’m in this scenario, too.
When I needed a new car in 2019 I somehow found a six speed manual Crosstrek that has all physical buttons for climate and radio/volume that also has a backup cam and a touchscreen for CarPlay/Android Auto.
It’s perfect.
We need some serious federal regulation against bullshit in vehicles.
Every function that is normal to use while in motion needs a physical button.
Absolutely no fucking spyware reporting back to the manufacturer.
Most of the bullshit exists because of federal regulations requirements that they ran away with. Even backup cameras (which are arguably useful) because of shape/size/economy restrictions causing rear windows to be less easy to see out of.
No shape of window will let you see a toddler directly behind your car.
I don’t want to ban it. Some people apparently want it (well, or at least the price reduction that comes with the auto companies having a new revenue source). I’m hesitant to try to impose my preferences on them.
I just want an option to pay regular price for a car myself and not have everything I do be data-mined. If it costs $N to pay your costs and make your profit, just charge me $N. I just want to be the customer in the relationship, not the product.
They operated just fine like that for decades. I don’t see a need for that to change.
If the backdoor exists, it will be abused.
Also, that relies wholely on trusting the manufacturers to not mine your data when they have the ability to collect it.
It beggars belief that people still make the argument you responded to after the whole Clownstrike debacle.
If the way you want the market to work is “everyone does things the way I want” rather than “let everyone choose what they want”, the chance that the single route that is taken is not what you want is considerably greater.
Choice is good.
A reasonable opinion on lemmy? Prepare for the downvotes, it’s a pitchfork circlejerk here!
I don’t hate tech in my car.
I hate unnecessary, poorly designed tech in my car.
Current tech design unnecessarily complicates and obscures what should be simple and easily accessible functions. That’s more than just irritating, it’s dangerous.
BRING BACK THE FUCKING BUTTONS HOLY SHIT
Yeah, let me keep my eyes on the road. I’m not a huge fan of mini coops, but the dash setup of the ones I’ve driven are my favorite. They’ve got unique toggles and knobs, made it easy for me to memorize functions without having to give it any thought
I guess I’ll be alone in saying I don’t want a bmw cockpit with a button for every feature of the vehicle.
I like the rocking, turning console selection wheel Audi does, and I like the two wheels that also click forward and back on the steering wheel that Tesla does (and also gear stalks with buttons on the end). The only other thing that should maybe be a knob or button is climate temp or blower speed, but that is nicer when it’s adaptive like a thermostat.
Minimal interface for me please, just don’t force me to touch navigate the touch screen while I’m driving.
All I need is Bluetooth in the audio system and a place to hang my phone. Beyond that, things that don’t make my car move or my body comfortable can go to hell.
That’s the biggest (and dumbest) reason I’m looking forward to my next car. So I can play music seamlessly through Bluetooth.
I have a 2016 with Bluetooth but it literally will only let me use it for calls/texts.
Way cheaper to just install(or have somebody else install) a new radio. I did this in an afternoon.
Now I have CarPlay/Android Auto, a reverse camera, and engine diagnostics/check engine codes all in one spot. Didn’t lose my steering wheel controls. Actually doubled them cause now they support press and hold actions for every button that I can choose what they do.
This is all in a 2010 stick shift…
See if your car is on the website niftycity you might be able to get a piggyback adapter from them to run Android Auto & Apple Carplay through your OEM setup.
They no doubt sell rebranded versions of the same stuff you can find on AliExpress but they do the hard parts of working out all the bits to make it all nicely integrated with the OEM setup rather than having to research which obscure cables you need to buy.
A build-in gps is also pretty nice
Every single one I saw has been either slow, have terrible maps, missing maps, outdated maps, or most likely, all of the above. Doesn’t hold a candle to open maps, waze, or gmaps on a phone
Car companies don’t care, they think the tech gives them an excuse to charge more even though a lot of the tech is actually cheaper (a single touch screen instead of all kinds of knobs and buttons) plus it’s a way for them to collect more of your data to sell. Before buying my next vehicle, I want to make sure I can easily disable its internet functionality through hardware so that it doesn’t phone home.
They can charge SUBSCRIPTIONS this way too
Summary: Computerized touch screens and ‘smart’ features with poorly thought-out UI and UX are a solution in search of a problem.
Start with what directly benefits the user and driving experience.
Go from there.
“What directly benefits the user?”
“Heated seats.”
“Okay, start charging a subscription fee for that.”
I know it’s not what you meant, but it’s what I immediately thought of.
Why can’t some manufacturers just have a phone cradle instead with the backup camera on a screen in the rear view mirror? I hate waiting for my car to boot up just to put on some music.
I like the tech in my car, it has knobs and buttons. But then again it is from '91.
I drove a 2020 pickup while taking turns on a family trip. I jumped on the chance to get a 87 Chevy C10. Nothing I want, that I can’t get with a cellphone mount. The 2020 truck feels like I’m driving a lifeguard’s chair around.
Yeah I use a little FM transmitter tor audio, kinda tempted to use an old retro sterio kit I got at auction so that I can use a tape deck.
I may try to solder an AUX into the stock radio and hook a BT receiver into it. I do like a clean appearance and I don’t listen to the radio anyway.
Never have tried that, but now youve made me curious if mine already has an aux, it was a government car and was last used by IT before I got it at auction earlier this year.
Yeah huge trucks can just fuck off
While it would be nice to have a screen for music and nav, I absolutely hate any car where you NEED to use the screen to do things. It feels like distracted driving is designed into cars these days…
This is why I chose a Mazda. Buttons for everything. I didn’t even realize I had a touchscreen until cleaning the interior one day with the radio going.
My Ford clearly has a touchscreen, and it’s nice, but I’ve also got buttons for everything I need while driving. That’s the way it should be.
subway surfers at a traffic jam
Power windows, Bluetooth audio systems, seat warmers.
These are all really positive tech advancements in my lifetime.
Touch screen interfaces, power door handles (without a manual override), firmware disables features or limitations that are determined by the DLC you purchase from your dealership…
These are fucking bullshit and almost no one I know likes them.
It is insane how anti-consumer cars have gotten.
power door handles (without a manual override)
I’m fairly certain that’s illegal. In the US at least.
There have been stories that sound like it’s a thing. But those have always been people not knowing where the mechanical release is located.Points at Tesla
They appear not to be even though it’s extremely irrational. I might clarify that I think a single mechanism should be the door release and Teslas specifically bury their manual overrides within the body of the door itself in an area that most users are unaware of.
Yup.
I refuse to buy any vehicle made after 2015, and even that’s quite a bit newer than I’d like.
I wouldn’t mind having tech in my car, but I have a zero-tolerance policy for proprietary spyware-infested shit. Therefore, I can’t buy any vehicle made after 2015.
I’d like to have a double-DIN car computer with a Raspberry Pi, RTL-SDR (for the radio) and OBD2 connection, but haven’t gotten around to making one yet.
That’s because they’re putting dumb shit in. We have the technology for example to -
Have high beams shine around other cars. (Regulators actually fucked this up)
Put all the speed and other needed information on the windshield.
Put a thermal image on the windshield so you can see the road as if it were daylight.
Use “fly by wire” controls instead of the same control scheme as a Model T.
And quite a bit more. But no instead we have the world’s worst mix of UI/UX and software in an attempt to save money and sell data.
Fly by wire would be a terrible design for a car, I’ve seen people driving on space saver tires or with taped up windows for months. If people already just ignore warning lights until something physically stops them from driving then at least having a physical steering column means there’s still control after the power steering fails so that they don’t go straight on into oncoming traffic.
On your other point about still using the same control systems as a model T, modern cars don’t. Hydraulic steering came around in the 50s and almost all modern cars have electric power steering, the model T had completely unassisted rack and pinion steering. I can’t find any definite answer on what the last car without any hydraulic steering was but I’d definitely like to find out if anyone knows.
You got me curious and found this article from 2019, it looks like the Alfa Romeo 4C didn’t have power steering. It was discontinued in 2020.
Yeah FBW is cool for like big super complex systems that are maintained and inspected rigorously.
Not small sporadically maintained, almost never inspected vehicles with two pedals and a two dimensional control wheel.
Don’t look at cruise control systems then.
I was referring to the control scheme. Wheel, pedals, etc…
And we already digitally control speed. Direction can’t be that hard.
Even then we still don’t use the same control scheme as the model T then, the model T had a separate forward and reverse pedal and no clutch.
But fly by wire isn’t a matter of difficulty it’s a matter of redundancy and safety, like I pointed out before, people aren’t going to maintain the system properly and if there isn’t a back up it’s going to lead to accidents.
I’ve driven a car that used a projected HUD like that before and hated every second. It is horribly distracting and unnecessary. The traditional dash is just better and has remained unchanged for so long for good reasons.
Okay. And I’ve driven stuff with projected HUD and loved not having to look away from the road. The best part about tech like that is you can turn it off. It takes literal pennies to implement.
Have high beams shine around other cars.
… while pedestrians and cyclists get blinded.
2014 impreza. No screen at all. I bought a phone mount that shows waze and charges my phone.
I have cruise control and heated seats. And I can operate both with gloves on!
Don’t need a backup cam because my windows and mirrors are good.
I will drive this car until it dies, and then I’ll replace the head gaskets and drive it until it dies again. And then I will replace the cvt and drive it until it dies a third time.
Unfortunately there’s nothing you can do about the NY road salt. The frame will be left, flake by flake, in the gutters of 490. It’s the only thing that can take this car from me, and it is its inevitable fate.
You know your maintenance schedule well!
