This is the exact same situation as Raya vs City. Big early mistakes before growing into the game.

Yet no one talked about a Raya being targeted as a weak link.

Raya was always going to be his favourite and is his new toy that Arteta wanted for years Ramsdale never stood a chance of staying as soon as Raya joined.

You say we saw what ramsdale did in the run in, take the Southampton error. But Raya has already done that twice, against City and Chelsea, even closer to his own goal.

Arteta has said that quote to support his keeper publicly, but there’s only so many times he can watch these happen with no consequence. If Raya is allowed to keep making these mistakes (which has happened a lot in his limited game time so far with both kicking and crossing) then; 1) That sets a dangerous precedent for any competition 2) The errors will keep happening because Raya isn’t good enough to change, because Arteta will insist he does the same thing.

The stats may show he’s ‘better’, but big errors against Lens, City, Newscatle and Chelsea isn’t encouraging at all, yet no one in this sub seems to have issue with those?

There’s no accountability for Raya on the short term with his errors or in the longer term with his position seemingly never going to be questioned or challenged? Never of these things are good.

He wouldn’t get 14 extra goals because :

A) he wouldn’t consistently get the game time ahead of Jesus

B) He won’t score 14 goals more than Eddie would in his limited game time as Jesus backup

C) If he is our starting striker he’s not going to score 25 league goals (excluding penalties because Jesus doesn’t take our penalties and got 11 league goals last season even missing 3 months injured)

I take away his penalties because there’s no assumption he becomes our penalty taker or is on the pitch to take the penalties. If he comes, and starts, and then takes penalties then those extra goals become more valid.

Also we don’t need a striker in January, we have Jesus, Eddie and Trossard (maybe Gabi) and a midfielder or defender (without Partey and Tomi) are more priority areas in the short term.

Raya hasn’t shown yet why he’s worth £30m or why he’s better than Ramsdale. Big errors in big games people here seem to be sweeping under the rug or making excuses for.

I like Ramsdale but this isn’t a pro Ramsdale argument, it’s just the Raya isn’t yet proving to be better, and has already directly cost us points.

We’re not going to win the league with a 14 goal a season striker. It wouldn’t be an extra 14 goals if he’s replacing Jesus.

Hojlund cost more because united believe he has the potential to be more than that and he has the longevity along with the physical profiles of speed and strength already there.

We either need to be going for a world class striker (Oshimen) which probably won’t happen, or go for a striker playing well in a top league which still has potential growth (Sesko or Gyokeres as 2 quick examples) which can supplement Jesus and then take a lead role in a year or two.

And recent rumours are saying Brentford value him at £100m, so even with negotiating Toney will be more than £60m.

Yeah midfielder seems to be the initial need, which is the right play I think. Just hope we look at other striker options in the summer.

We shouldn’t be going anywhere near Toney in January or otherwise.

His cost and age make it not worthwhile, and when you look at his non penalty goals he’s actually a very average (premier league quality) striker number wise, who wouldn’t be worth anywhere near what Brentford would (rightfully for them) value him at.

Off to my first Arsenal women’s game tonight, under the lights - should be good!

“At the training ground it’s like a big family – and this is a big factor to achieve great things.”

Maybe start with a goal from open play and we’ll take it from there Kai.

I was trying to stay clear of the direct comparisons between the two, because of course Ramsdale has been caught out as well.

Raya is 3 years more experienced than Ramsdale, has worked with our keeping coaches before and has been wanted by Arteta for years - and he’s still making these mistakes in high profile games. I think that’s why for me there’s I’m scrutinising these more.

Also (side note) for me it’s strange that Ramsdale’s kicking seemed to be really good at the start and has gotten more suspect as times gone on.

Forget Ramsdale and any fan loyalty for a minute.

Raya has shown repeatedly that his positioning from crossing is suspect, and has had two huge lapses in his passing vs city and Chelsea, giving the ball away in the penalty area directly to an attacker.

His stats might be better but he is having worrying moments on the eye test that should be cause for concern.

The worst thing is that he is clearly the number 1 and no matter how many errors he makes this won’t change, and when a player will always play despite this - this isn’t good.

Any team you like if the game is reffed by Mike Riley.

Wonder how long people will continue to defend his signing. (Being different to supporting him which we should all be doing anyway).

There were so many red flags that people ignored and continue to do so. He was, is, and (probably will be) an awful signing we’re stuck with.

It was a gamble, and so far it’s failing massively.

The bar for Havertz is so low that if he completes about 10 passes a game this sub considers that a successful game.

He should have been the target instead of Havertz.

More physical, better defending, more tenacious and showed at Palace he can score goals.