I think what gets lost in the VAR debate is the fact that there were conversations about referees every week before VAR existed. Peoples memory seems to be conveniently short but the amount of howlers refs made took up plenty of airtime 5 years ago

Can we not complain about things that are fine such as cut and dry offside decisions because then it makes actual issues (multiple newcastle decisions) look less serious

It’s such a big talking point would be strange if the sub just ignored it

Completely agree which is why I tend to lean on the data (saves over expectation relative to xG, distribution and progression numbers, cross claiming numbers) and Raya excels or is at least very good in all these areas. Problem is the “eye test” that people remember is him misplacing a few 40 yard passes which have ended in a goal - for example the Lens goal from his misplaced pass to Tomiyasu - 95 times out of 100 that doesn’t end in a goal but Wahi just pulled some magic out of his arse and all of a sudden people are disproportionately attacking Raya because of it - and because its early into his “controversial” elevation to our starter it sticks in the mind more than it would with any other keeper

Exactly - too many people still struggle to judge keepers past making world class saves when a keepers value is now so much more than that - and even then Rayas saves over expectation numbers are far better than Ramsdales

It’s not comparing the number - it’s comparing a percentage

The stat about long pass completion percentage is the key here - Raya 2nd in the league and Ramsdale 22nd. That’s such a huge shift but people keep saying it’s a sideways move. You’ve gone from the least accurate long passing keeper in the league to the 2nd best. It doesn’t directly show up in highlight reel saves but in terms of game flow and ball retention arguably it is more important.

There’s always a couple of weird people with weird takes on anything if you look for it - majority of people who aren’t shitting on Havertz are just waiting and seeing. I think the Havertz cult you are describing will just be a very vocal group of about 10 people don’t let them rattle you.

In regards to watching his performances for 4 years maybe thats why - because I watched him 4-6 years ago for Leverkusen and he looked unreal. Shame he hasn’t looked anything like that for us but he is still relatively young and I’m hoping for the best

Don’t think anyone is in denial about how mid he has been lol - there is just a hope that he can get better because he has been better previously in his career. Might never happen but to be a complete doomer and say right that’s it time to pack it in after less than half a season is silly

No turned out it was some striker from the championship I think - can’t remember who but it wasn’t eddie

Do these panels realise that they’re setting a precedent here that now this action isn’t a foul and every time its rightfully called as one everyone is going to call them out for it now being called? It just adds to the confusion. Just admit you were wrong and we can all move on