One point I haven’t seen mentioned, is the severity of punishment. Why did this person feel it was better to fight to the death rather than let the police take them? Could it because of draconian prison policies where they would go back to jail for years and years and years possibly forever?
If every interaction of the police is potentially completely life-changing, it makes people act very desperate
This. A lot of people don’t get that “hard on crime” is some authoritarian bullshit that creates crime as a self-fullfilling prophecy.
Shit, you’re gonna put me to jail for 8 months, ruin my life completely, and then send me to prison, where I’ll have whatever psyche broken down into a million pieces as I work in what can only be described as the western goulags?
My gun could also go clap clap, because why not?
No don’t you see, working manual labor inside an active wildfire for $0.13 an hour so you can buy a $5 Top Ramen to avoid eating the chlorinated sewer runoff they call food (see the infamous prison loaf) is totally different from gulags.
p.s. don’t bother applying for the same job you did for free in prison once you’re out, having a record disqualifies you! Good luck paying rent!
So there is a statistic that 70%ish of prisoners return to prison within 5 years.
It was one of the things that “radicalized” me when I learned it.
It’s kind of sick and twisted. When compared to actual functioning reformist prison systems, look no further than Norway.
During the 60s and 70s, it was the wardens that brought about the reform, because they didn’t like the way the prisoners were being treated. Several persons per room, one toilet per 6 people, etc. It was inhumane and it was the actual prison wardens who organised to fix the issue.
Now, many years later, the Norwegian prison system is one of the most effective prison systems in the world, with a low return rate. People who suffer from mental health issues and who break the law would be treated well in Norwegian prisons, leading to a much higher chance of reform and them becoming fully employed tax payers, so it sort of pays for itself over time.
In 2016 US police visited Norway and said “you should have a system more like ours”, and despite Norwegian police being somewhat their own boys club, a resound “hell to the no” resonated across the Norwegian landscape.
Do you want MS-13? Because penal colonies/western goulags is how you get MS-13.
And maybe if the courts were worth half a shit, I would just stand up for myself the proper way, but not after being jailed for 10 months having my court date indefinitely moved up until I was too broken to not take the plea deal.
I wonder how much burden we could take off the justice system if we allowed canning to be used as punishment instead of incarceration.
We all luckily we have history to tell you that
You’ve attached a lot of weight onto mere speculation.
Is that how the daisy holds up the elephant?
As an example consider unarmed meter maids. They write parking tickets. They rarely get into gun fights. They rarely get shot at. Because when you encounter a meter made even if you’re a career criminal, they’re just going to give you a ticket. You know this can’t escalate in spiral out of control. So people don’t shoot meter maids.
What the actual fuck hahaha.
So what you’re saying is make it a wrist slap and nobody will get upset? lol. Forget the fact you’re moving the goalpost from, “they retaliated because of prison conditions” to, “it’s because the police were armed!”
The real reason is these were bad dudes in a terrible state of mind and society failed them long before this point. More criminals voluntarily do a crime just to get 3 meals a day and shelter. Can’t be that terrible if many are doing that, can it? It’s also not like people don’t resist arrest in countries where police are unarmed.l
There might be some systemic reason why the United States has the most bad dudes per capita as evidenced by prisoner population.
And yes the severity of punishment does factor into how strongly people resist being punished.
Is the goal to make people suffer? Or is the goal to rehabilitate people?
I’m not going to discount America’s plethora of issues from 1) terrible education, 2) terrible health care systems, and 3) Below-average prison conditions just to name the big 3.
But, this guy had a massive criminal record going back over a decade. He was a massive piece of shit, and the vast majority of people served warrants simply do not engage in a shoot-out, putting a child and mother at risk. For as much shit as I give police officers, this is a reflection of the criminal’s state of mind and not anything the police did. I seriously doubt this dude had the foresight to consider prison conditions.
As you said he has a big criminal record, maybe this would be his third strike? Maybe this would end his parole etc…
So let’s work with the theory this was the straw that would break the camel’s back, third strike possession of a firearm, send him away forever. I’m not saying I agree with his actions, but I can see how people would react in that situation
He’s been well beyond the 3rd strike for quite some time as I gleaned from reading.
There’s really no good alternative about it. The police did what they should’ve done. They got a warrant and pursued a bad guy. There really is no justification for what he did. If anything, it justifies arming the police more in order to enforce the law; for there is no substantive evidence to the contrary to suggest that if they came bearing balloons and flowers he wouldn’t gun them down just the same. That’s the thing about criminally insane people… They are not consistent.
What he did is ensure every cop is doubly-armed and on-edge in the future, for every cop has no alternative. After all, they don’t control the prison system or the healthcare system or the education system.
It’s almost as if guns should be regulated similar to cars. Insurance, licenses, registrations etc…. The 1% is making too much money to allow it
The officers were part of a US Marshals Service-led task force. The warrant they were attempting to serve on Monday was against a felon wanted for illegally possessing a firearm.
So you mean the exact thing the cops were trying to do? Did you even bother to open the article before posting your hot-take?
Yeah let’s attack the guy at home where he can bunker down when we know he has guns.
Cops are so fucking stupid…could just wait for him to leave the house and arrest him, but no, go play cowboy and get ur dumb ass cop buddies shot.
Congrats.
So… Marshall’s could be trying to get guns out of felons hands AND guns should be regulated like cars. Also if you want civil talks don’t go around with " did ya even bother…", you sound like you’re more ready for a fight than a convo in my experience… (source: I too am like this at times)
I’m spicy certainly, but that’s because the comment was inherently unhelpful. Like shouting “genocide” in any Israel-Hamas thread, or “fuck Trump” it is a dead end of conversation where nobody learns anything, nobody has their beliefs challenged or critiqued, and no discussion occurs.
The in group feels better about themselves, the bad thing is chided, and the issue remains untouched. Build a polemic and defend it, share some white papers or research, even a dumb meme. But pithy comments are almost always masturbatory - and I’m guilty too from time to time.
Actually insightful.
Talk about hot takes, that is a direct quote from the article.
A hot take is a “piece of deliberately provocative commentary that is based almost entirely on shallow moralizing” in response to a news story, “usually written on tight deadlines with little research or reporting, and even less thought”.
It’s important to understand words before using them.
Aside from waving your hand at the issue of gun deaths and violence, you offered nothing to the discussion without bothering to understand the scenario. You could have talked about why was this a police raid instead of a traffic stop, or what failure led to him being on the street after recent convictions, or the issues that drive gun violence and the toxic masculinity around them.
Was it you who called it a “hot take” in the first place ?
…yes? If you’d like to expand upon your point, I’ll gladly retract that assessment. But if you’re going to persist in low effort sealioning instead of getting somewhere and making a point or statement, I’ll take my time elsewhere
I’m not wasting my time or energy debating a bot or whatever you are over a proven undeniable fact
This is dumb as fuck, literally nothing about that mentions anything about firearm licensing. Did you understand the words you quoted before getting high and mighty?
It’s illegal for felons to possess firearms regardless of whether or not legal owners require licensing, and nothing in here says that they didn’t just get a tip that some criminal was stockpiling weapons.
- A law was written
- The law was broken
- The cops tried to enforce the law
The dude already broke several firearms laws, in addition to other violent crimes. This is the system working deal with violations - so what was the point of the original comment mentioning licensing?
Licensing reduces the number of guns in circulation and ensures that their owners are more responsible than the average unlicensed owner, making their guns less likely to end up on the black market.
How many stories have we heard about police kicking down the wrong door and murdering people in their own homes while they sleep and still we can’t understand why people should be allowed to be armed in their homes? Breonna Taylor ring a bell?
We don’t know anything about this case, it’s very possible it’s yet another “no-knock raid” where they kick in the door of a sleeping homeowner and force them to defend themselves against what is essentially an armed B&E.
You realize that the reason that police get away with homicide in the US so much is that every single person might be strapped?
You know that in Canada and the UK and countries where guns aren’t common, police have a much harder time justifying drawing a firearm, to the point that just drawing one unnecessarily often makes national news?
What’s insane is being the only country in the world with regular mass shootings and thinking that you’ll shoot your way out of the problem.
You realize that the reason that police get away with homicide in the US so much is that every single person might be strapped?
That’s not why. It’s because not enough people care and because police work for the government and secure the interests of the government, so putting them in jail is essentially kneecapping yourself if you’re a politician.
You know that in Canada and the UK and countries where guns aren’t common, police have a much harder time justifying drawing a firearm, to the point that just drawing one unnecessarily often makes national news?
Again, nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with culture.
What’s insane is being the only country in the world with regular mass shootings and thinking that you’ll shoot your way out of the problem.
What’s insane is thinking that we are the only country in the world with a problem with violence.
The Nice, France mass murderer killed more people with a commercial truck than any mass shooter in history.
More people are killed in the US by bare fists than the entirety of all rifles put together.
Killing people en masse is super easy. Even if you were able to take away the guns, there is no shortage of alternatives.
That’s not why.
Lol, yes it is absolutely part of the reason.
It’s because not enough people care
Yes, that is also part of the reason.
and because police work for the government and secure the interests of the government, so putting them in jail is essentially kneecapping yourself if you’re a politician.
No, that is the case in literally every single other country too.
Again, nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with culture.
Sounds like a gun owner in denial, not a reasoned point.
What’s insane is thinking that we are the only country in the world with a problem with violence.
You are the only developed western country with a problem as severe as yours. You’re the only one where there are regular and repeated mass killings. You are the only one where violence, and specifically gun violence, is a leading cause of death amongst children.
The Nice, France mass murderer killed more people with a commercial truck than any mass shooter in history.
Yes and more Americans have been killed by gun violence in 2024 so far.
Sounds like a gun owner in denial, not a reasoned point.
Right, blaming it on denial (of…?) makes much more rational sense.
You are the only developed western country with a problem as severe as yours.
What a strangely specific criteria. Because every other country with similar problems can be slapped with the label of “underdeveloped”, I assume?
You are the only one where violence, and specifically gun violence, is a leading cause of death amongst children.
“Gun violence” is not a cause of death. Murder is.
Do you think if they took away the guns, people would just stop being violent? Or that they would just find another tool?
Honestly, just think about it for a minute.
Because every other country with similar problems can be slapped with the label of “underdeveloped”, I assume?
What countries are you thinking of?
“Gun violence” is not a cause of death. Murder is.
Technically no, a bullet wound is, or a stab wound, or blunt force trauma, but murder is the legal definition of a crime that involves death, circumstances, and intent.
Do you think if they took away the guns, people would just stop being violent? Or that they would just find another tool?
I think that they would find another tool, be forced to decide whether to commit to a close quarters fight to the death instead of sitting back and spraying from a distance, and in the vast majority of situations the overall outcome will be far less severe and easier for police and security to contain.
Have you really thought about it?
be forced to decide whether to commit to a close quarters fight
Do you think this is the only alternative? Did you already forget about the mass murderer with a truck? Or a bomb? Or a lighter? Or an airplane? Or any number of dozens of other ways you can murder people without putting yourself in harm’s way?
Regardless, this individual shouldn’t have had a firearm due to existing regulations prohibiting felons having firearms
Meanwhile troglodytes try to argue guns aren’t the problem, in the only country with mass gun violence problems.
And why is that?
If you read the article you would know
The officers were part of a US Marshals Service-led task force. The warrant they were attempting to serve on Monday was against a felon wanted for illegally possessing a firearm
I did read the article. Doesn’t tell me anything. You must not be aware of how deeply flawed our criminal justice system is.
You’re so close yet so far.
You’re just far.
Meanwhile, morons perpetuate this lie and ignore the fact that the largest mass murders are committed with trucks and planes and bombs and any number of other weapons.
The Nice, France mass murderer killed more people with a truck than any mass shooter with a gun in American history.
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Well at least we’re keeping it civil
What part of gun regulation do you think is gonna stop the news from putting it stories about people defending themselves from cops? Do you not realize what gun rights are for? Regulate the cops before you go figuring you can regulate anything else.
USA mass shooting? Shocking
“It is one of the deadliest assaults on US law enforcement in recent years.”
Umm, I don’t think they understand the words they are using. The police were the ones doing the assault of the house. Oh, right, low IQ scores are encouraged for police.
They were serving an arrest warrant.
Do you just assume everything cops do is bad?
The warrant they were attempting to serve on Monday was against a felon wanted for illegally possessing a firearm.
You also hate guns, right? Well, here they are enforcing gun control.
We’re just getting reports of the neighboring town’s firefighters have had to my God… Fight fires. Holy hell, how terrible.
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Are you serious?
You can’t see how lesser bullets per second is helpful when you goal is to lessen the amount of people dying in a timespan?
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Why ban bombs if you can just make them with cleaning supplies?
They’re not entirely wrong, handguns should also be banned and regulated if you actually want to address gun violence in the way that literally every single country that doesn’t suffer from regular gun violence does.
Ooh you’re so close.
Also yes.
Bad argument. It’s easier to carry one gun than two.
https://youtu.be/2Q-QVBQVYTA?si=YbbrccFsvRkWLujA also, with good training you can reload a whole lot faster than you can switch guns.
I doubt many are concerned about people with good training.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/2Q-QVBQVYTA?si=YbbrccFsvRkWLujA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
This is a situation where some familiarity with shooting would be helpful. Changing weapons isn’t as intuitive as the movies makes it, and this law doesn’t fix everything, but iterates a step closer to making it harder to commit mass shootings.
It’s not exactly time consuming to switch magazines either
It also wouldn’t help for Congress to ban “assault weapons” because it would be soon declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, and that would overturn all the state-level bans already in place. Which would be a victory for gun rights and the principles of individual liberty that we should all celebrate.
I would prefer to celebrate fewer children being shot in schools than your right to play with deadly weapons.
Sorry best USA can do is “the sound of children screaming has been removed”
