Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price. the system is designed to screw us over.
Replace waiter with “CEO” and you begin to understand why socialists believe what they do
Except instead of 25%, it’s 250%.
And the company owners do not walk or have to deal with customers.
Tips are commonly pooled
Depends on restaurant
Makes me glad I live in a state that got rid of the tipped minimun and just has one across the board minimum wage.
Who’s the cheap one in this equation?
… the customer who is paying the owner of the restaurant for the food AND is obligated by social convention to pay extra to the waiter who is underpaid.
or
… the restaurant owner who doesn’t mind living in a world where we have normalized underpaying restaurant workers to the point where we pass down that responsibility to the customer who is already paying for the food.
Pay your workers a proper wage and get rid of the idea of tipping.
Here’s the equation. Restaurants keep food costs low by paying servers next to nothing. If they paid them what they deserve, the cost of your meal would increase.
So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA
If you don’t want to tip, don’t go to a restaurant that has servers.
Now, other places that actually pay a living wage and also have a tip button (ie concession stands at a sporting event) can get fucked.
Don’t like tipping? Protest the policies by not going to restaurants, dont shove it on the workers who are stuck in the system.
The owner is 100% happy you came to pay him and not the waiter he didnt wanna pay anyway.
Tipping is fine, but as in “keep the change”, not “we need to change this tipping culture”
The owner is evil, but anyone who doesn’t tip a waiter that earns too little to be able to afford to live is an asshole.
Here’s a tip: that waiter should unionize.
You heard it here folks, it’s just that easy. Unionize today! I’m sure there is a well established Union already in your area ready to take you on and fight for you and your $15 a month in dues! Go gettem, tiger.
Sorry for the downvotes. Lemmy users can be remarkably shitty
As someone who works in the service industry, this is the argument that I see all the time. “We aren’t going to subsidize your wage because your owner is an asshole.” Weird, you have no problem being a patron of his establishment. Do you think that your refusal to tip somehow hurts him? Because it doesn’t. It only hurts the staff. My argument always has and always will be that we increase the cost of menu items by 18% and then split that additional 18% with the staff. However, that idea always falls flat with the owner because, “We’ll be the most expensive restaurant in town. No one will come here.” Which is a valid concern. And so, we are at an impasse. He can’t afford to pay me what I’m worth, and he can’t increase the cost of the menu or he’ll outprice his customers, and I can’t quit because it’s not better at any other restaurant. In the end, in any direction, the customer is going to pay more, either as a tip, or just for the cost of the food, or they’ll pay with worse service because the experienced staff can’t afford to work there anymore. Refusing to tip isn’t a protest, it’s just being cheap and making yourself feel better about it. If tipping went away, prices would have to increase, and either way, the buck stops with the consumer. Want to eat cheaper? Cook at home. I’m sure you’ll be just as good as any of your favorite restaurants with their specialized equipment and cooks with a decade of experience.
I hope all you downvoters have something of value to contribute… Oh, no, you’re just downvoting to show your solidarity with the rest of the cheap-os? Ok, enjoy your meal.
So… If i read this correctly… The net difference is zero? Except when I’m being an asshole and I dont tip.
So in the end, this boils down to offering the option of being an asshole to your customers.
As an european I always find this discussion weird. And when visiting stateside I never really can “gauge” what I should tip. Am i in a joint which underpays the server? Is (s)he fine? Is 10% enough? More? Should i just make it whole? I just never know. I sometimes even have resorted to just bluntly ask the server or a patron what is customary. (my weird accent helps getting an honest answer)
It’s quite honestly a shit fest. There is an amount on the billl… But that isnt the real amount, except when you’re an asshole. And if you over tip you’re still an asshole, just a stupid one, and if you’re undertip you’re also an asshole.
Come to think about it: it really boils down to which kind of asshole do you want to be.
It’s a VAT, but it’s a choose your own VAT, and it’s based on what the service is worth to you. The customary amount is 20%, but a lot of people go between 15% and 20%, with my average take home being around 13% because of the people that don’t tip. So, choose your VAT. In the end, when adjusted for the cost of living, eating out in the EU is about the same as eating out in the US and adding a tip. The tip is just already included in the meal cost. If we could all agree to do that in the US, then it would be fine, but we can’t, so it isn’t done. It’s part of the establishment at this point, and change is something hard to sort out across 330 Million people all at once.
Only thing that stands out to me is the percentages you’ve listed. I was always taught (and most of my peers seem to have been as well) that the normal tip for average service was 15%. Poor service (that is in the waiter’s control) gets 10%, and good/great is 18-22% (but usually 20%).
I was born in the early 90s if it makes a difference.
No idea why you’re being downvoted so much, you’re absolutely on point for US restaurants. I’ve served in them, I’ve managed them (still didn’t fucking get paid doing that)
And this press the union button bullshit above is insane. Restaurants have like a 5% success rate already, if they can just yeet entire Starbucks/Walmart locations on a whim, how the fuck do you guys think that’s going to go with a restaurant?
Unionizing may be the best route, but we have to stop pretending it’s a walk in the park to do.
I don’t know why you’re downvoted, it’s the average decent opinion: the pay has to be somewhere, either fixed in the prices or in decent tips.
Tipping is bullshit. Restaurants should pay their workers properly. But I’m not gonna punish the server for that. She has zero control over that.
If I can’t afford to tip then I just don’t go to the restaurant. People would prefer to make up excuses for why they don’t wanna tip and how that doesn’t make them an asshole while taking huge huffs of their own farts. If you don’t like the tipping culture just go to a fast food restaurant or make your own food. Why is everybody such whiney bitches about everything?
Drag never tips while eating out.
Drag also lives in a country with a livable minimum wage and no tipping culture.
Can you just not tip? We live in a tipping society too, but tipping is just goodwill. Like if your waiter is really nice, and the whole thing was 115 dollars, you might give him 120 and he can keep the difference. Sometimes just a roundup, fromm 5.60 to 6 bucks or something. But it’s not expected.
Presumably, your country pays its servers a living wage so they don’t have to scrape by on tips. This has been the state of the US labor market in most non-fast food restaurants for decades:
A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage [$7.25 per hour]. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
So you hate the tipping culture but also hate people who want it abolished. That’s just beyond stupid.
I HATE EVERYONE
No, I hate the people who say they want it abolished and use that as an excuse to not pay their waiters. I made it plainly clear in my explanation, I honestly don’t know how to dumb it down for you anymore man.
Lol yeah the “I went to the restaurant but didn’t tip to teach everyone a lesson” is the same as “I voted for the third party to teach everyone a lesson.”
No, you gave the restaurant owner their profit and the employee nothing. You helped no one, you taught no lessons, and if we could harness your mental gymnastics as physical gymnastics we would have infinite renewable energy.
Like not tipping is going to abolish anything. You walk in, pay the owner and leave the worker hanging. Why would the owner care?
It’s not like all the waiters can stay home waiting for something to change, people gotta live. Stop going to restaurants if you don’t want to tip
Why do you hate me for not wanting to tip, and not the employer who does not want to pay a living wage to it’s worker because the law does not oblige him to.
Why do you blame me and not the government who regulated the law to allow rich people to become more rich by having part of their salary expenses covered by the public?
This is a perfect example of privatizing the profits and socializing the losses
This makes 0 sense and isn’t worth replying to. It’s not really your fault though, your education system failed you.
You really showed me now, huh? Shame, I actually really thought you were the kind of person to clash viewpoints with and come out with something constructive after.
To be fair, that’s not the actual alternative for the waiter. The waiter either accepts their income as it is with some people not providing a tip, or they can opt for other employment like the rest of the workforce that isn’t tipped. They don’t have to sit at home waiting for things to change like helpless puppies.
I’m in California though so we don’t have any of that wage fuckery where they can be paid less than minimum wage if tips make up a significant portion of their income. It’s $17.55 hour minimum plus tips where I’m at.
I’d really rather see tipping outlawed along with all other obscured fees and just pay what you need to pay to have waiters and charge what you need to charge to have a business transparently printed on the menu.
Ahh yes other employment! How come nobody ever thought of that… Just get another job of course. Taxi driver don’t like their wage? Why dont they change jobs. Improper ppe? Just quit. Minimum wage at mcdonalds not livable? Change jobs bro. Bad / dangerous working conditions? You know it… Change jobs! Why do we even bother with oversight like OSHA when all construction workers need is to change jobs when things arent properly done. Contractors will figure it out eventually! California should do away with their pesky wage rules,“to be fair” they aren’t necessary, workers won’t be sitting at home waiting for it.
It’s so ridiculous of an answer ill go back to arguing with those who think they shouldn’t tip. We’d all prefer to see it outlawed.
Why do you assume the waiter is a she?
This place is just as toxic as reddit lol, it was a valid question.
Edit: and before people get confused by my username, I haven’t been back to reddit since the day RIF stopped working.
Oh dude just fuck off, gender is not important for the point.
Exactly, gender isn’t important. You could have done the convenient thing and they/themed the imaginary waiter. Why did you choose to go to the effort of assigning a gender when gender has nothing to do with your point?
It’s not an attack, you don’t need to get so defensive. It just stood out to me.
Because serving is a female dominated industry where I am I guess?
So you’re maginalizating male service workers now? Are they less important?
Reminds me of that episode of Scrubs, where Dr Cox was going around with a tip jar, because if a guy pouring coffee gets a tip, he should get one from the people whose lives he saved.
tariffs
Except the food cost is only a small part of what we are paying for at a restaurant. What we are paying for is the worker’s time and skills. We could, mostly, eat the same ingredients at home for much cheaper.
A lot of the other costs are small and make profit in scale.
In this case wouldn’t the cooks time and skills be more important? Almost anyone can carry a plate but it takes a more diverse set of skills to cook various meals in timely manner while trying to prepare another 10 orders as well.
Not to say the server isn’t important as well but tbh, I’d rather have shitty service and great tasting food than have amazing service and terrible food. Ideally great food and great service, that will defintely get me back.
I love that scene, you have a table of vicious killers and sociopaths, and even they’re disgusted at the idea of someone not tipping.
never mess with the people who handle your food.
Don’t have tipping here, thank fuck. I sometimes tip the nice sluts on the camsites though, even if they only get half.
you don’t tip because your cheap
I don’t tip because I never go anywhere
we are not the same
Fuck anon.
Edit: and fuck your downvotes. If you’re not willing to make food yourself then tip your servers.
If you believe no tipping will leave waiters to starve with no money, that’s not true. The very reason they are so severely underpaid is that restaurants know they’ll get their income from tips.
The less tips there are, the more your employer will have to pay you - in a form of salary that is way more predictable and reliable than tips.
Customers, on their end, will know price in the menu is final, and they won’t add crazy extra just so that they won’t feel like worst people on Earth.
In my country, tips do exist, but you are not expected to leave them by default and it’s totally fine and common not to. The result? Waiters get livable wage and can last a month without ever receiving a single tip (which they actually have, too, from time to time).
Pretty sure they’re only guaranteed minimum wage if they don’t receive tips. So yeah if you’re cool with your waiter making $7 per hour instead of $3, don’t tip.
I’m not aware of how things are on the ground in the US; it’s more of a general perspective not tied to any specific country (which is my separate “meh” about strongly America-centric Lemmy, but it’s very tangential)
But seeing people actually hit the absolute mandated minimum is indeed depressing. I might expect that waiter’s income with tips is normally greater than the federal minimum, so maybe there’s a chance not all waiters will agree to work for that, which should balance it a bit?
To insure proper service. Congratulations, everyone at the joint now knows your face and that you’re cheap.
You’ll get the worst service imaginable at your once favorite place. You’ve ruined it for yourself.
So waiters spit in my food because I pay the amount that’s in the menu, and I’m the problem here?
Sounds a lot like the maffia. “Pay protection money or else we’ll tear your shop down”
So what you’re saying is, tips are bullshit, and it’s really just a shakedown? Got it.
Jokes on you, we don’ 'Merica
